Again, who should be in that squad that isn't - given we accept that some players massively underperformed last time they were asked to step up at the World Cup?

I think you are missing the point, you can put any players out and we can debate them on their merit but that isnt the overriding problem is it, I think with the exception of 3 players the team almost picks itself but.............................

Its when they get out on to the park that the problems start, they look like a bunch of people that have just met for the first time and have been thrown an egg shaped ball.

Now compare that to the Aussies and New Zealand teams who actually have set patterns, run onto the ball at pace and are set up to defend knowing what is coming their way.

It's very easy to blame the coach but he just doesn't have the players.

Michael Schumaker could not win an F1 race in a triumph dolomite.

The best thing is that every man and his dog was slating noble for picking the same old tried and failed players game after game and not trying something different.

Do you know how many training sessons England had together as a squad ahead of Friday night's game?

Three.

The players from Leeds and Saints were given a week off after the Grand Final to recover, so the team didn't get together until Monday IIRC.

Both the Aussies and the Kiwis had an extra week of preparation due to their domestic seasons finishing a week earlier, and if you look at their respective squads most of the key players were available to train as a group before that as they were from teams that didn't make the NRL GF.

Indeed the two half backs, full back and centre pairing have already played together a number of times at Origin level so already have an understanding of each other's games.

So they are at least a week ahead of England in terms of organisation and structure, not to mention just being more gifted individually. Until we start to take the international scene seriously in this country and structure our club season to give the international side the best chance, we're fighting with one hand behind our backs.

But why would we do that whilst our fans are far more interested in the domestic game?

TYPO corrected for you.

Chicken and egg - are fans more interested in the domestic game because the international side has been gash for the last 20 years? Or is the fact we have concentrated exclusively on the domestic game been the reason our international side has been gash?

The balance certainly does appear to have shifted, club attendances have risen in many cases since the late 80s whereas we struggle to fill 25,000 seater stadia for games that we were playing at Wembley or Elland Road in that era.

fair point. hoever they had a lot of time before the world cup and were still a shambles. it seems time together is therefore not the issue

Gash for 20 years? We won a series 3-0 two years ago, against a team that became World Champs a year later.
It's an awful long way to go to get an international to bring in the same attendance as a full round of club fixtures.

Did they?, I'm not saying it's anything to do with time together but the PNG game was in Aus 21 days after the GF.

didn't they have 2 weeks in oz? it was something like that.
the point was two weeks of training together yet they were a shambles.
this season it's no better. there should still be some semblence of a game plan.
to be frank we look a disorganised rabble

I think people have a finite amount of money now, and rising prices in the cost of living is making more people pick and choose what they spend their money on. And watching something as dour as England France is not up there.

I agree that a successful international team would be good for crowd figures BUT I think the wider issue of clubs spending on international talent in order to survive in pre licence SL has blunted the development of home players to such an extent that a period of regrouping is required.

Hopefully being given four years to develop home grown squads will enable more SL clubs to contribute to the pool of talented players available to our international team management.