They're rumours they are talking about bringing in the Video Ref at all games. I'd much rather they bring in an extra official to control the ruck. Might be a great way to build young refs experience and confidence. In fairness they could bin the Video ref entirely for me. I much prefer games without it.

Some cracking posts on this thread, and agree with a lot that’s been said. We’ve definitely lost our cutting edge with regards to coaching appointments and recruitment.

Recruitment in particular has been pretty woeful in recent seasons and teams like saints have consistently got it right along with having great homegrown spine players and bringing in very good head coaches which is why they’ve had so much success. It’s going to take some time to get it right at Leeds but I think a lot of fans are fatigued over the last 7 years or so with the really poor on the field performance. That’s been far too long a period and Hetherington has to take a lot of the blame for that. I’d also be interested to see how much money Caddick has pumped in, he’s a very wealthy man indeed.. we shouldn’t be struggling financially.

It’ll come back the success I’m sure, we’ve definitely made strides with youth development but we shouldn’t be losing likes of Walters. It’s happening too often in recent years, we very very rarely lost good young players in our pomp years and I think that’s due to our lack of success on the field

I definitely think the ambition of the club is different to the likes of Saints, Wigan, Wire and Cats.
They all want to finish top.
You can see that in the way they recruit.
They know where their gaps are and act early. They have a plan.
OK, it doesn't work at Wire, but you can't fault the ambition.
Look at how Wigan are recruiting for next year.
And look at how quickly Saints have acted with Clark and Mbye at 9.
Our recruitment in contrast always seems desperate and last minute.
Our ambition these days is to scrape into the top 6.
The club see that as appeasing fans.
And maybe we can scrape a win or tow in the play-offs.
That would be success - and would keep up ticket sales.
Unfortunately the corporate side is more important than trophies.

For me, it books down to two things. We took our eye off the ball with the junior setup. We have produced some ok players in that period, but no real established internationals in that period. Looking at the England vs team, we don't really have anyone regularly in there.
Secondly, our transition from the golden generation was woeful, and we've been on the backfoot ever since, and our signings have been generally poor.

Without the solid base of great youngsters coming through, more emphasis has been on signings, and we havent been able to get played of the right calibre to come and stay to help build a team around

Another brief mitigating factor has been injuries: right back to Ward who had to retire early (was a cracking player), Jack Walker was looking a real prospect at FB and then we’ve had other key players like Newman injured for long periods. All clubs get this but ai do think it’s effected Leeds.

One wonders how well the club managed some of those injuries.

Walker was thrown in early as a teenager and made an impact. But I wonder if he had been introduced a bit more slowly (Gannon-style) then the toil on his body could have been reduced.

Stevie Ward's issues with concussion sound horrific. Another player who seemed a bit too small for the position he was played in. It always baffled me why Ward wasn't brought through as a stand-off, which would have protected him from a lot of the collisions he was routinely subjected to. Imagine if we had the option of Ward as a half - it couldn't be any worse than Cameron Smith, who has the skills but not the speed of awareness or body to make the most of them.

Jury is still out on whether we can get on top of Newman's recurrent injury woes. I wonder if playing him at full-back might get the best out of him, and perhaps create fewer opportunities for him to have to suddenly put the foot on the gas which seems to come with extra risk of hamstring aggravations (???).

Another player with injury issues we didn't get the most out of was Kallum Watkins. With a bit more foresight we could have kept him as a useful squad player, even if he had lost confidence at centre.

all clubs have injuries. that's not a valid excuse imo

All teams have them. But we do seem to have been disproportionately hit when it comes to our best young players. No idea why. Some of it is luck, but it certainly hasn’t helped.

Not entirely linked but interesting that Warrington have recalled Riley Dean now that Powell has gone.

If we are saying injuries are to blame for our current woes then lack of quality in the squad to cover is also a factor, is the club actively doing it's best to rectify these issues?

I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s to blame, just that it’s a contributing factor.

To your other point, I think the signings of Mcdonell, Roberts, Hooley, Olpherts and Ruan were made with that in mind. Didn’t Smith last year say he was shocked that he was 1/2 injuries from throwing 17 year olds in. I’d say that’s been rectified. Granted Olpherts (and maybe Hooley) don’t look to have worked out but the other three are/look like they could be handy squad players at a minimum.

Some really interesting points - with a club of our size and financial muscle we shouldn't be struggling as we are. Is there some deeper undercurrent in the culture of the club that is holding back progress. We now the over reliance on the golden generation was an issue - thankfully this has passed. Having heard rumours as to how the club treated certain players plus the treatment of Furner is Leeds considered a toxic environment that stops the recruitment of the best youngsters and overseas players?

Listening to a part of a podcast Blake Austin was on that was posted on Twitter today seems like GH might be part of the problem?

Was talking about the NZ game after the Grand Final last year and despite 10 players been away on the after the GF for several days they were all told that they had to play the NZ World Cup friendly and if they didn’t they would be in breach of contract. Was saying Martin asked GH if he could withdraw on basis that if he he got injured in a friendly he’d miss representing PNG at the World Cup but was told he had to play

That’s if he’s not embellishing things a little, I don’t think he’s doing his contract negotiations any good, don’t think current players should be slagging off the club like that in my opinion.

The NZ game was announced in may, Austin makes it sound like it was planned within a week.

I honestly thought the NZ game was pointless from the day it was announced, but as you say the players knew the score. Austin is making himself look like a bit of stirrer, which is a shame. Don't see what either the club or the player has to gain from his staying at this point.

In the golden era and even a little after of McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield, Webb, Diskin, Mathers, Ablett, etc etc... there was definitely a desire with the players unlike what we have now, whether the players are content with their levels or just can't be bothered trying that extra 5% (or more), I don't know, but even the atmosphere has changed from crackling to somewhat subdued almost, largely down to the performances on the pitch but we, the fans were the 18th man by all accounts.

Eras, personnel, even prices of tickets have a bearing I feel.