Higher than Leeds/McDermott finished this year without Sinfield

True, but McDermott did what Smith couldn't and led Sinfield and co to a treble whilst Smith f**ked up a treble in 2005 with them.

Agreed but Smith took a team that hadn't won the league for 32 years and got them there. McDermott inherited a great side with a winning mentality and look what has happened as soon as his key half back retires?

2005 was a year that Smith learned a lot about man management and the need to re-assess his approach, these days he seems far less arrogant and more compassionate than he did in his days at Leeds.

And despite some claims that 2017 will be exactly the same as this year we might well see McDermott learn from this. Also Smith then took us backwards in 2006 which was arguably our poorest season in the Sinfield-era, and he didn't cope too well when Briers retired.

I agree re. 2006 - I think this was a reaction to what went on in 2005 it continued into 2007 until it was announced his was leaving.

Warrington built a team around Briers and didn't have much else - in that scenario any coach would struggle. McDermott has hardly flourished post Sinfield and Leeds had a better squad that Warrington did when Briers was playing

People are writing off 2017 because of the quality of the squad as much as the quality of the coach

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And this season has proved really that for over a decade our team was built round Sinfield, perhaps more than most of us even realised.

Look, i do think we need a regime change but there is still a chance Mac will turn it around next year and get us challenging again. whatever, he will be here anyway so we have to get behind him and hope that will be the case.

The present squad of players are not good enough to win anything next season.

Smith took over in 2009, Briers retired at the end of 2013. He had plenty of time to build a team that "didn't have much else"....which I don't think is true anyway as they went out and got a MOS FB in Hodgson, splashed out to get two of the brightest young players in Myler and Ratchford, had a very strong two hooker rotation and two of the most consistent performing forwards in SL in Hill and Westwood.

McDermott has struggled this year, one single year with injury issues and a badly disrupted preseason and loss of their main training facility and a second massive leader in Peacock......Smith has taken a couple years to get back up to the top of the table and to a GF after 2013 after the retirement of Briers and without those other factors McDermott's had. And then he had to sign yet ANOTHER MoS winner and two NRL halfbacks because the ones they spent years grooming to be their HB partnership in Myler and O'Brien failed. With regards to McDermott also he might have his hands tied slightly in regards that GH will stay loyal to the likes of McGuire and Burrow whereas the coach might very well want to have some new guys in but can't have them.

Not only worst season in the history of SL, not only the worst season since I first started going to games in 1981, but the only season Leeds have found themselves playing tier 2 opposition in regular league fixtures ever.
Performances that were overwhelmingly dull and structureless throughout the season where we managed to look awful in the most boring and skilless league I've ever seen.
What coach keeps his job after that? He couldn't fix the problems we had and many of our best players have gone backwards at a rate of knots.
Thing is we could be competitive next season, the SL is that bad, but we would still be rubbish. It's all well and good people digging out their anti-Smith revisionist view of history (which is completely irrelevant to our current situation) but in the whole of 2016 our best performance probably wouldn't have come close to our worst of 2005.

Yeah, our hopes (or mine at least) are built on the SL standards being at an all time low at the top end to believe we can get back there again next year. I really haven't enjoyed or indeed bothered watching too many games this year. I actually enjoyed both semis at the weekend though, they were good, close intense contests. And the MPG was up there as one of the most memorable games of many a year for obvious reasons. Hopefully the GF will be a good one, the game needs it to be.

i felt for macdermott this year. the guy was really giving it his all and you could see that. i have enormous respect for him as a person too, no angry tirades blaming others like wane.
however i honestly don't think he's the guy to turn it around and take us forward.
i think it's time for a change