Was going to post something but then read this and thought, "why bother - tad has said exactly was I was going to say"

no, but they have been replaced to a certain extent. And by that I don't mean that Kirke is irreplaceable, just that he has his role, and he does it well enough to keep being rewarded.

He is a frustrating player, who I think should do a lot more, but I think the problem is that people think that just because he's is a prop he has to do certain pre-defined things, and I think that is far too simplistic.

When Peacock leave I don't think the club see him as a sucessor. I would expect either one of the youngsters to take on that role, or a marquee signing to take that place.

Given the fact that he has consistently been played by not one but, three coaches, you have to conclude that there must be something that we ordinary Joes can't see. I have to confess that, I have in the past and continue to fail to see what that something is.

On a positive note, as others have already suggested, I thought young Foster was a revelation.

Such as carry the ball every now and then and when you decide to do so go forwards and not backwards with it?

Maybe Kirke is a think outside the box type of player and I am just a luddite.

Maybe Kirke's out there to do things that you can't see from your seat?

Maybe he's McDermott's on field assistant and is passing on the coach's advice but by wearing a kit and dressing up as a player he doesn't get sent from the field like a trainer would?

If you hear hoofbeats, think horse not zebra.

Maybe he's just a big pile of steamingly average turd.

maybe he is decidedly average, but if he wasnt he wouldnt be 4/5/6th rotation prop at Leeds, he would be leading the line elsewhere.

maybe not making loads of errors, not being too much of a liability, being a good squad player and a good pro and being steady on the field is the best we can ask for from a 4/5/6 rotation prop on not very high wages.

i'd hazard a guess that if Kirke added running his weight and skittling opposition forwards to his game he would be asking for a lot more money and a lot more game time.

I'd agree with this - and he's happy doing what he does (albeit not a lot) for what we offer him (again, hopefully not a lot).

He is a perfect example of a squad player. Not going to set a game alight, but more than makes up the numbers and doesn't often give away penalties or costly errors. I've just given up expecting him to do much more than run the ball in now and then.... but as Smokey says, that's why he's down the prop roster.

He isn't the 4/5/6 rotation prop though is he? where does this come from?

He has been selected every game where he is fit enough to play, sometimes not fit enough to play. This was even when Peacock, Kylie, Bailey, Moore, Griffin, Singleton were all available to play.

He is 4th choice at least, and even then he usually makes the 17 with four other props.

This particular SL era shall be historically recorded as a truly great one, as evidenced by Ian Kirke's collection of 5 SL rings and Ryan Bailey's collection of half a dozen... with room for several more to yet be collected.

I feel honoured that I was around to witness such greatness.

And, in twenty years, when Kirke and Bailey look back on their careers, they'll reflect wistfully: "I wish I'd have spent more of that period posting third-rate sh it on an internet forum..."

How can you say he isnt 4/5/6 rotation prop then that he is? You arent making sense.

Kirke is behind Peacock, Kylie and Bailey every day of the week. Griffin isnt here, Moore isnt very good and Singleton is very young. If/When Singleton pushes on, Kirke will drop to 5th, if Moore wasnt such a liability he could have knocked Kirke down a spot, if Griffin was half the pro Kirke is he would have knocked him down another.

So he isn't 5th or 6th choice prop that you stated.

You tried to defend his position by making out he is only playing as he is a squad player and we have a lot of injuries. The point is that is not true, and Kirke is in the 17 each week no matter what. His form has not deserved it, and we have players at the club who put in far more, and would be better taking that spot.

That is the issue with Kirke that posters have posted. There really is no defence as to why he is seemingly guaranteed a spot.

Well he was 5th choice at the start of 2012 behind Peacock/Leuluai/Bailey/Griffin, highlighted by his non selection in the WCC. He then became 4th when Bailey started at loose when Ablett was moved back to centre (to cover injuries). Obviously didn't work out with the club & Griffin so he stayed at 4th as 2013 began. Now Moore I would suggest has moved ahead of him if he's getting the starts in this recent spell as well as Singleton being the one to start at loose (something I believe they tried with Kirke away to Wakey last year IIRC).

So Griffin not working out & props covering loose in Ablett's absence/centre covering has largely been what has seen Kirke get 4th prop spot. With Singleton establishing himself and the likes of Foster & Sutcliffe (he'll probably end up in the back row upon Sinfield's return) adding to our back row options then I'd say if we get everyone fit I don't think Kirke will make the 17.

Two things. Kirfke has been a regular in the 17 for eight seasons. Eight. Matters not if he's 4th, 3rd or 1st choice. He's a forward in the 17.Everyone in the 17 should have something to contribute. Kylie has spent time coming off the bench whilst at Leeds. It matters not in the modern game if you start on the field or on the bench.It is a myth that he is a "squad player".

Secondly, nobody knows that he earns very little. He has been a first teamer for 8 seasons and recently has drawn interest from the Bulls and Wakefield. I suspect he is on considerably more than the likes of Singleton etc.

A squad player should ideally be someone with aspirations to displace the incumbent. Juniors like Sutcliffe or players signed like Hardaker signed from the Championship. Kirke's aspirations are limited to giving JP a breather.

It sums up Kirke that the best his defenders can come up with is that he may be cheap and he's a squad player. The former is likely to be false and the latter certainly is.