Every year we hear soundbites about togetherness, rhinos DNA, this year it was 'the struggle', the other year it was burning sentimantal sht in a bin and turning it into a Rhinos head. All these gimmicks and we're still going backwards.

This is what I mean about culture, we’re exchanging hard work and high standards for short cuts and gimmicks at the top level and that is impacting every area of performance and leadership.

Quite a few players are better since Smith arrived. Off the top of my head:

Ash Handley, Jarrod O'Connor, Cameron Smith, and Tom Holroyd - of the current squad. Someone like Sam Walters also started looking the part despite not liking it at prop.

I suggested Wane a few weeks ago

You must be delighted with yesterday's result. You are probably not even a Leeds supporter.

There are probably good reasons Wane has not been brought in for the head coach role for another SL club. I would struggle to see him fitting in at Headingley.

If we do decide the change the coach, a successful appointment for me would be someone who is capable of getting the most out of the current squad, which has been expensively assembled, much of which is under contract for next season and beyond, and features a growing number of young players. IMO the squad is good enough to be higher on the ladder, aside from needing a bit more firepower in the forwards.

If we go for a new coach who wants a clear-out it will be back to square one again, and I don't think the club can afford that unless it is determined that the likes of Croft, Ackers, Miller and co are not what we need.

Croft, Ackers plus Miller are exactly what we need, unfortunately it’s difficult for them playing behind a lightweight and underperforming set of forwards. Not to mention a sub standard coach.

lock this thread now.
backwoodsman has hit the nail firmly on the head

What we need is A Graham Murray esq. couch who can get the very best out of a group if players and is also not afraid/strong enough to ruffle few under performing players, and promote the up and coming players.
We don’t need a rebuild.

Smith's sacking is inevitable now it's just a matter of how much of the season GH wants to waste. If he wants to write off another season, he'll give it a couple more weeks and then do it. Then he'll write to fans about how difficult it is to hire a coach mid-season, and we're going to need patience. We are in a never ending cycle of the man who keeps getting us into this mess being the one who is trying to get us out of it. The repetition of this is becoming a maddening process. We're supposed to have patience in a man that is constantly failing at his job when it comes to the squad and manager.

Leave it too late and the new coach won't have chance to evaluate the players properly. I'm baffled what some members of the first 21 actually offer. It might be that Smith isn't bringing the best out of them - equally they may just be substandard and need ditching.

It’s clear there’s a big issue players arguing on the field. Probably no respect for RS. GH needs to swallow his pride and sack Smith immediately. But can GH admit he got it wrong?

Not sure if GH ever admits he got it wrong, if he does its very rare.
Whether Smith is a poor coach or too inexperienced GH choose him.
In any organisation or business its the man at the top who is responsible and if its floundering then they tend to be replaced.
If Smith goes then GH should go as well.GH has been great for the club in the past but he is now like a boxer who cannot realise or does not want to admit he's had too many fights.
He is totally out of touch and a younger man needs to replace him with fresh ideas.

Agee with your comments SteveM but we do not live in an ideal world so the best we can hope for is Mr Hetherington admits his latest mistake (even if privately) and does the right thing and replaces RS. No point waiting any longer. If decisive action is taken and a good positive replacement is found quickly, even Mr Wane. Then we can salvage something from this season. If he doesn’t take action then Mr Hetherington must carry the can when it comes to a big decline in season ticket renewals for 2025

The least-worst option is probably to keep Smith on to the end of the year regardless. If we go for another coach mid season we might see the usual dead cat bounce of a new man, give him a long deal and then discover he's actually useless (see Agar). The only value I could see in replacing Smith mid season is in sending a message to players that what they are delivering isn't good enough. I would only bring in a coach mid season on the basis that unless we win the GF under them, they wouldn't be here next season. I doubt you'd have many takers.

In terms of replacement, just going to Australia isn't enough. Furner was from Australia and was awful, but anyone who had looked at his record at the Raiders would have steered well clear. But GH knew him, so in he came. Smith had a reasonable track record, but how much did the fact he was Tony's nephew have in the decision to hire him? The professional thing to do would be to pay someone who really knows their stuff and is very close to the reserve game in Aus to get us a shortlist of young, hungry coaches in Aus, and pick from them. I'd also think seriously about paying someone like Gus Gould to do an independent review of the playing and junior development side in the off season, as its clearly a complete mess.

Regardless, our next coach is not going to have the room to manoeuvre that Smith had this off season. I would expect them to look at the pack in particular and try to get rid of some midgets and bring in bigger forwards, and take some obvious decisions like not renewing Fusitu'a. Martin might also have to be sacrificed to get the cap and quota space to bring in what we need. But we will be stuck with the majority of the squad we have for a couple of years.

There's about as much chance of Hetherington retiring as there is Putin calling it a day.

As for the coach, he's probably got time yet. But if the home losses keep mounting, patience at the club may run out. If the players want him to stay we ought to see a response in the coming games.