Complete bollox thread title it should read "England flop for the first half hour but recover to deservedly win"
Not the best first half hour we've ever seen from England but from then on we controlled the game and imo had we gone to our right more there were more tries on offer.
Roby was my M.O.M followed closely by Ferres and T.Burgess for the 2nd test i'd bring Gale in for Williams purely for a better kicking game.

Shocking thread.. I don't think anyone flopped yesterday and if I was pushed for a flop it wouldn't be hardaker. ...on form I didnt see how Tomkins could get in the team over hardaker anyway. ..

On the whole everyone played well but my "disappointments" were Whitehead. Physically he looks bollixed. ..he is so flat footed in the real sense of the phrase I can't see him making it in oz. He was like this at the end of the season for Catalan. ..I think he's bulked up too much and its hindered him.

Then the other disappointments were farrell too much side winding and the young boy williams who showed plenty of confidence in running at the line but a number of times He was found being greedy imo when a simple pass was on.

But a great game and our front row was immense.

Kicking game in the first 20 minutes was particularly awful. Schoolboys would have been ashamed of it and it led to the Kiwis dominating field position and scoring two tries.

I didn't think Williams looked like he deserved a spot in the England 17 on that performance.

I'd look at Gale too.

Ultimately, the players pulled through and ground out a tough win against what looked a tiring Kiwi side
However, I won't accept it's down to the coaching set up.
MacNamara and Lowes? Has there ever been such an unqualified inept clueless pair in charge of a national side? Embarrassing that Lowes is anywhere near the England team.

Williams was good over the 80 minutes, it's Widdop who seems to manage to be able to be incredibly average, but continue to escape criticism.

I just didn't think him doing the 'Twist' in front of the Kiwi Defensive Line was that good over 80 minutes in all honesty.

I'd stick with the two halves who played. Add in Hardaker at FB then it's unrealistic to expect the 1,6 & 7 to be gelling straight away in attack especially when two of them were playing their first meaningful International.

Yeah, no point in losing any developing cohesion. Don't think there's a cat in hell's chance MacNamara will change it either. If there's a chance for Widdop to kick for Burgess to chase then he needs to be aware of it and act on it.

The only plan I could see was "Get the Ball to Ryan Hall", which lasted 5 minutes in the first half and then it was "Everyone run up the middle".

Hardaker didn't have a great game...but who did? No idea what anybody sees in Widdop....a tedious team devoid of ideas or ability to put anybody into a gap. NZ looked like a poor version of Leeds' 2015 offloading game team.

i agree, widdop looks very average, luke Gale on season long form deserve a shot over both widdop and williams. would certainly give him a chance over widdop, but no national coach would be that ruthless especially mcnamara.

If you've just spent the last fortnight working with Widdop and Williams to set up your shapes and patterns of play, why would you change it now after winning the first game?

It's not like we're talking about bringing a Shaun Johnson or Jonathan Thurston into the side, it's Luke Gale FFS.

The issue I have with Widdop and Williams as a partnership is that neither is particularly a dominant voice or leader. Williams has had O'Loughlin and Matty Smith doing that role at Wigan, Widdop has had Cooper Cronk and Benji Marshall in those kinds of roles at Melbourne & St George.

I'd like to see one or the other step up and drag the team around the park a little more, but I wouldn't be binning either of them off for Gale on the basis of one performance.

Good summary. Halves tend to get blamed for running in circles but usually it's because they don't have a runner they were supposed to be passing to. Timing etc. is an issue with what is basically a scratch side (we don't play enough international games to develop anything).
I also agree that neither of our halves really did much talking, or are likely to in the rest of the series.

add george and Sam burgess, walmsley and cuthbo to that pack and it would comfortably be the best in the world.

I thought Williams got better as he got into the game and widdop was starting to pull the strings. Hall showed why he is still one of the best wingers and took some pressure of the forwards. It wasnt really a day for the backs generally though