I agree OF Roby by plenty i think the Kiwis and Aussies did enough to snuff out Graham ,Ellis and Burgess although they can walk away from the tour with their heads held high.

You wouldn't have a clue who I go and watch.

Is it Leeds?

He took issue with the WIgan fan claiming Hall was "lazy and makes too many mistakes" which is, frankly, either a troll or, being politically correct, ill informed opinion because, whatever his displays in this tournament, he is neither lazy nor makes too many mistakes.

He is is arguably England's best winger so the initial statement laughed at by the Wigan fan was not defensive or one club mentality at all, but the Wigan fan's response was.

Nice to see the knives out for Hall based upon some pretty abject team displays in a pretty poor and mis-matched squad coached by a pretty clueless buffoon. How anyone could expect any winger to shine in such circumstances is beyond me. I take it on the same basis people have now concluded Tomkins is garbage based upon his pretty oridinary displays in our very ordinary England team?

Absolutley.

Ellis and Burgess didn't look out of their depth like some but still were a little dissapointing.

The problem for players like Burgess and Ellis is that they are having to play roles for England that they don't for their clubs, and are also far easier to target given the abject nature of England's 'attack'. I suspect both would look absolutely devastating playing for Australia rather than England.

I agree with your comments re Hall, but Tomkins is not as good as many make out both internationally and domestic. He was part of a team that wore the opposition down physically and mentally with tactics that rightly or wrongly helped them dominate throughout the season. His decision making is questionable, and his attitude is out of place on a rugby pitch. Give him any other jersey and he would look abject at best. The fact that he looked so bad playing in these internationals, yet will probably be chosen to play in the next international is, I suppose, more a reflection on the choice processes of the England coaches, based on how they performed within their club.

Unfortunately the England coaches never look at the bigger picture. Yes pick a player that works well in a team, but if that teamwork can't be utilised with another set of players, then their club skills are irrelevant. I realise it is probably quite difficult to ascertain how to find out how well a player will adapt to playing in a different team. Probably the simplest way of realising this would be to play regional games such as yorks, lancs, cumbria, etc, although with the one club players only playing for their 'local' team, it could be difficult to mix it up very much. You could obviously only pick players that originate from that region though, although perhaps the inclusion of NL1 players could open up the player pool generally.

I agree I've often thought that many of the Aussies that we laud over here - particularly in the pack - only look good because of the team they play in.
Mark Carroll anyone? Or for us Backo.
Ellis & Burgess didn't go from being arguably the best in their positions in the world, ie the NRL, to ordinary in the space of 3 weeks. Despite McNamara's best efforts.

He was clearly a stand out player for Wigan this year. I'd be confident in saying they would not have achieved top spot and a Grand Final win without him as part of their squad.
He'd look outstanding in any club side.
Don't let a poor team display for an overmatched (we just don't have strength in depth. Whilst I'm not suggesting we'd have won this, Morley, Peacock and one of Mcguire/Eastmond in there would have helped make a bit more space) fool you. And I have to think it's the internationals you are basing your opinion on, because it just can't be the club season, where he's been outstanding.

I think you've been listening to too much Eddie and Stevo! I am basing my opinions on the whole season. I think he has quite a lot of weaknesses. He doesn't look outstanding in any side, as proven by the internationals. He is made to look good by quite a few of the other players in the wigan side, although I'm sure there are plenty of players like this in every club.

Sam Tomkins is an outstanding individual talent, arguably one of the best broken field players with ball in hand in SL.

He's benefitted from playing in a successful side with good players around him, much as the likes of Danny McGuire and Leon Pryce have done during their careers for example.

The next step for Tomkins is to harness that individual ability into a team structure at international level, whether it's from full back or in the halves. Still a bit too much headless chicken and not enough vision from him at times, but he's the best option England have in either position IMO.