Spoke with Blue and Amber glasses on. This club if relegated could go into Administration with the debts we owe. The reason we are in this position is the fault of ongoing miss management of the club and trying to continue to buy bargain based players and hope we can turn them into world beaters.
Private boxes at £30k per season are all sold this year when they open, who will pay the same to watch Championship rugby. Look at the North stand, corporate entertainment £3k per season ticket.
Can anyone name the 11 players from the squad who left last season, the crap went deeper than I thought and we have given out contracts to more players who are way past their sell by dates, I think you underestimate the fans, they know we are in a rebuild of the team, its you who doesn't understand that this rebuild has been already going on for the last three years since Peacock and Kylie left, the problem is we have been replacing top quality players like Sinfield, McGuire, Burrows, Peacock and Kylie with low quality players on long contracts and its left us in this shocking position. Have we looked at replacing Ryan Hall, surely you cant say we replaced him with Luke Briscoe, He is playing his rugby at Fev.

Good post.

We are in this position because we didn't make little necessary changes over about four years, leading us into a car crash hole now where we're up against it. Making sweeping changes is far more difficult to pull off.

I wouldn't be surprised if we only renewed 1 of the off-contract players for 2020 (although I have a bad feeling they'll keep Ferres as an "experienced professional..."). With some rumoured unrest and another couple of contracted players past their best, we could easily have 6-10 players leave before 2020. Over 2018/19 and 2019/20 that would be the biggest change certainly I've ever witnessed at the club. What more do you want? Change the coach. We did that. Change again. What if they're worse than the previous two? Because I'll tell you what, Brian Mac got a lot of unfair stick on here - or to be exact, stick for the wrong things. Where is the evidence that the change to Sinfield/Lowes, and then the change to Furner, has led to any improvement in results over Brian Mac?

It's not change for change's sake we need, it is measured change. If we replaced those 6-10 with just 4 real quality players, I'm confident with the youth we have coming through, we'd be in a far better place. Part of the issue for this year is that yes, we added 2 marquees and Lolohea, but we lost Hall and Moon who would walk straight back into this Leeds side tomorrow, so the net result was - not much.

Certainly hasn't helped having Ward injured, yet again, early and Crosby and Ablett still unavailable.

The club has to sell a vision now to the fans and future signings: which looks like a core of locally-produced England players, with a smattering of international stars, playing in a fantastic rugby stadium in front of passionate fans.

And in another classic Rugby League insular "it's fine when it's somebody else" attitude, if Leeds were to get relegated it would be a body blow for the competition. This is wider than just Leeds, because viewing figures are down again this season and a new TV contract needs to be negotiated - etc. A comp without a strong Leeds is nowhere near as marketable as one with. We don't need to win trophies every year but I do think the Super League needs us in the top flight desperately.

the rebuild hasn't been going on in any meaningful sense for 3 years, that's why we are where we are. I think the club have realised this so made the changes they have made, the problem is I think you're expecting an immediate effect and it doesn't always work like that, look at Wigan they are in a similar position to us, well in some ways worse as they are in limbo with who will be coaching the team next season.

Trying to continue to buy bargain basement players? we for the first time have spent money on marquee players and Merrin and Hurrell have been our best players this season. I'm just not sure where you think these new players are coming from and how you get round the fact that players on contract so can't just get rid.

I am not stupid and neither are the management, they know what relegation would mean to the club, what I am saying is we haven't been relegated so there's no point talking like we have, is it a possibility, yes of course due to our bad start, there is also the possibility we'll end up a lot higher, just like Hudds and Catalan last year.

This is the list of players

Joel moon
Mitch Garbutt
Jordan Lilley (year long loan)
Anthony Mullally
Ryan Hall
Jimmy Keinhorst
Brett Delaney
Josh Jordan-Roberts
Josh Walters
Jack Ormondroyd
Keith Galloway

I will agree with you that Leeds have probably over-sold on the new facilities without having the team to back it up, that's probably fair. Then again, if they have sold all the corporate at those prices, great move by them - supply and demand and all that. They may well find it harder next year if they've delivered rubbish value for money however.

Nobody's arguing that recruitment has been abject for years. Signing after signing has just been P-poor and frankly smacking of a lack of ambition and an arrogance that we will win things regardless. I don't know what financial considerations were being made, with regard to new stadium or whatever, but I was shaking my head at most of the signings for years.

The simple fact is that we can't just chuck out another 6 players and sign another 6 better ones right now.

I agree recruitment has been poor, but I don't see the point in looking at the past, it was mismanaged and the club have taken steps now to try and turn things around, I really don't see what getting rid of Furner/Sinfield/Hetherington at this point in time would actually achieve other than the club being very short sighted.

In some ways our recent success has spoilt us both on the field and on the terraces (not that I would swap the success) sport is a very cyclical thing and we are basically back where we were in the early 00s, the problem is I think SL is far more competitive now, whether that's because the best teams have got worse or the lower teams have got better is a whole different debate!

I agree I think Sinfield as Director of Rugby needs more time. What he does need to show though is consistently good decision making - for me, the acid test is which players he is able to bring to the club for 2020 when he has had time and will have cap space to use. Unfortunately, we'll also need to be solidly in SL for him to do this job too...

Sport is of course cyclical but given the lead in Leeds have had to the change of guard, they have completely muppeted it. I mean seriously, I can't think of any other mainstream elite competition where a champion team has had such a fall from grace as Leeds Rhinos in such a short space of time.

The salary cap might mean that there aren't the same number of "easy beats" in the league as used to be the case in the good old days... and you don't have to be too far off to get turned over by anybody, unless you're Saints this year or Cas from previous. It's probably also true that everyone gets up for Leeds because they love beating us, and because there is blood in the water.

It's probably been mentioned before but a lot of clubs when doing stadium renovations also go through slumps on the feild. The money saved over the years by "bargain basement" signings has enabled the building of the stands and improvements of the facilities. It's a business after all and management have to balance the books somehow. I'm dissapointed with on feild performance so far this year but not in panick mode just yet

I just think it's a possibility the club has been holding funding back from the playing squad (and had the justification to after winning in 2017 on the face of it), with an eye on the stadium redevelopment. How much difference it actually makes I don't know, but they might have saved £1-2million over a few years? We don't know what financial position they had to demonstrate to the investors etc.

The problems will really come when and if we get another battering. As long as we're competing and in with a chance of results, most fans I think are pretty understanding and patient.

Buy garbage you get that on the field retain Has Beens they eventually become passengers.
Retain those who will never be good enough... you see where im going with this.
I agree its the earliest of stages of a huge rebuild but thus far that rebuild has been done in poundland & with very poor retentions.
Furner selects the Team just dropping 1 ir 2 when 6 or 7 have been awful will never send the right message.
GH & Sinfield have failed thus far & if we continue with the Donaldsons Alberts & retaining dads army we'll hit League 1 soon enough let alobe the championship.

Agreed. I thought the 2011/12 squads were not that great despite winning the comp; certainly not as good as what we had 2004-2010 but that team looks like a dream when compared to what we have now. Honestly, i could only find a place for our 2 marquee players, maybe a fully fit Watkins is better than he was back then but the rest are inferior. It's not a massive shock we are where we are

I don't know about the 2011 squad not being that great... 1-17 is a pretty formidable lineup (maybe not Kirke)


1 Brent Webb - FB
2 Lee Smith - WG
3 Brett Delaney - CE
4 Keith Senior - CE
5 Ryan Hall - WG
6 Danny McGuire - SO
7 Rob Burrow - SH
8 Kylie Leuluai - PR
9 Danny Buderus - HK
10 Jamie Peacock (vc) - PR
11 Jamie Jones-Buchanan - SR
12 Carl Ablett - SR
13 Kevin Sinfield (c) - LF
14 Ali Lauitiiti - SR
15 Ben Cross - PR
16 Ryan Bailey - PR
17 Ian Kirke - SR
18 Luke Burgess - PR
19 Kallum Watkins - CE
20 Weller Hauraki - SR
21 Chris Clarkson - SR
22 Jay Pitts - SR
23 Ben Jones Bishop - FB
24 Paul McShane - HK
25 Kyle Amor - PR
26 Michael Coady - CE
27 Zak Hardaker - FB
28 Brad Singleton - SR
29 Jared Stewart - SR
30 Liam Hood - HK
31 Callum Casey - SO

Yeah looking back it looks better than i thought at the time chris. Webb was past his best for me and of course Senior was done. Some of those from 18-31 would be a god send for us right now!