It is arguably his biggest flaw and so unnecessary. Funny thing I don't recall him being so bad for it in 2011/2012 but from 2013 onwards it seems to have kicked in. The 2015 GF I remember thinking as Wigan were turning the tide that we wouldn't see either Keinhorst or Walters come on (or too late) in this kind of game and this situation but they did and made a crucial difference. I thought with the retirement of Peacock we might see it improve as a chunk of subs not getting enough time was through having a prop that hardly came off but it's still an issue.

Wasn't they talk about reducing the number of interchanges to 8 for the 2017 a year or so ago? Not heard anything about that being put into place but would be a important change if they did.

If we don't get relegated then it really depends what GH wants from this season. Given the almost complete level of inaction in strengthening the squad, its hard to believe GH expects much at all. At most it seems we might look for a hooker to replace Segeyaro.

Man for man do you think there are really 4 teams with better squads than us?

Wire is the only one I would say definitely is but seem to bottle big games.
I never particularly rate Wigan squads but in fairness to Wane he consistently gets them in the top 4.
Saints and Hull have good squads but they still have a few players that are questionable.
Catalan have gotten worse and never make the top 4 anyway.
Cas seem to have a good starting team, but lack quality in depth, so an injury crisis could completely derail their season.

IMO if Mac can't get us in that top 4 (meaning he would have only achieved it 2/7 seasons), then we need to find a coach who can.

In key positions yes. Put it the other way round - name the Leeds players who would get into those teams.

Not one of our spine would automatically get into Wigan, Warrington, Hull, Sts, Cas starting sides. That might change if Golding/Sutcliffe kick on, but they are just as likely not to become stars (actually they're more likely to end up in the Championship based on numbers of players becoming stars). We look stronger than the rest in the threequarters as a whole. That means nothing if we don't get them the ball in good positions or if we're leaking tries up the middle. Which brings me onto the pack. I'd be really interested to know how many of our forwards would be automatic in the top sides. I'd say Garbutt, Ferres and Ward. You could make a case for others, but not by any margin.

Based on the above I just don't know how you can dress up our squad as anything other than frighteningly weak in the creative positions and average in the pack.

I agree that BM should go if we're poor again, but I do have some sympathy with the squad it looks like he has for next year. I don't think I'd be confident of challenging regardless of the coach. It almost looks as though GH wants us to be poor to average.

Add to that the style we have played under Mac's tenure, which is an off the cuff style of play with little or no structure, relying on individual brilliance and fluidity playing off of the back of it. If that is not being provided, the team stutter and look lost like we saw for most of last year until Segeyaro arrived.

This is probably the main reason Wigan continue to churn out results when key players are missing. Everyone knows their role within the team, and the systems although simple, are bred throughout so there is little disruption whoever takes over key roles.

We have no leader. We are also looking at losing our potential on field marshal in Segeyaro. then throw in the fact we have rookies still learning in key spine roles like you say. I agree to a point with leedsnsouths that our squad has some good players within it. particularly in the three quarters, that more than match up well with the top sides. but nowhere near enough proven quality in the key areas for me.

Then again you might look at the post-cc final games of the treble season and indeed other play offs under B McD. Whether we still have the players that can play to a structure is a moot point but I don't think it's something McDermott is averse to doing, or something he's incapable of overseeing given the on-filed leadership he enjoyed up to 2016.

Very good point. Always been a mystery how we have suddenly gained some structure and an astute kicking game out of nowhere during the business end of seasons and cup finals during his time, and are left perplexed and pulling our hair out during the regular rounds

Although I wouldn't say he's fantastic, I find a lot of the criticism harsh, we may well look at our league positions over the McDermott years and say we'be been poor, yet I'm sure every teams fans would have still loved to have swapped places with us given our achievements despite those league finishes.

I'll also highlight that in 2015 he 'led' a team that the majority on here could see us struggling to top 4 given the lack of signings that off season and how we ended 2014 to a treble, so he can't be all bad, yes maybe it was a freak year and maybe the players were dragged through by retiring key personnel, but you can't say 100% none of that success was down to him. I guess my overall point is, I don't think he's been given the resource to succeed over the last couple of years.

I think a lot got made of the ending and final league position of 6th in 2014 also. Pre Wembley we were never out of the top 4 and spent over half the season in the top 2 spots including several weeks in 1st. Think we would've had the LLS if we hadn't gone so far in the cup that year and we were also constantly in the top 4 throughout 2013.

The senior players clocked off after Wembley 2014. They were clearly emotionally spent after having finally won the CC after so many final defeats.

Correct.

Not true, they had an easy run to the final and weren't good enough to win anything else.
Also, McDermott.

Incorrect.

Still could have won the GF if Briscoe didn't bottle it: beat catalan and we are confident enough to beat Hudersfield, which would then make us confident enough to beat a weakened saints (who we almost beat with 12 men a few weeks earlier), then there is only the GF, and if Flower had a similar brain explosion we would have walked it.