FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > senior |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "I repeat - the fact most on here are suggesting Senior is still in the top 50% of centres in this game is a very sad indictment of SL and its youth development.'"
Or you could see it as the last roar of Super League's Greatest Ever Centre.
Depends how you view a glass at 50% capacity.'"
Jamie Lyon was SL greatest ever centre by quite some distance.
Regardless of how you view it the fact remains we are not developing the volume of players of sufficient quality.'"
Nonsense
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "I repeat - the fact most on here are suggesting Senior is still in the top 50% of centres in this game is a very sad indictment of SL and its youth development.'"
Or you could see it as the last roar of Super League's Greatest Ever Centre.
Depends how you view a glass at 50% capacity.'"
Jamie Lyon was SL greatest ever centre by quite some distance.
Regardless of how you view it the fact remains we are not developing the volume of players of sufficient quality.'"
Keith Senior was SL greatest ever centre
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "Keith Senior may well be past his best, but his best was so far ahead of 90% of the centres we produce in this country, that even now he's a good option for a lot of Super League clubs. Leeds need to look to the future now, IMO, but I'd be a bit surprised if no SL club finds a place for Senior in thier squad if he recovers properly from his injury.'"
Yep I'd agree with that. Senior is better than many alternatives in SL currently. Playing a young lad instead of Senior simply because they're young doesn't suddenly mean that SL have produced a youngster of better quality. If hes better than the alternative his age is irrelevant.'"
OK so how do the young players develop - how do they get the top level game experiance required to be a top player - sometimes you have to take a step back to take a leap forward.
I repeat - the fact most on here are suggesting Senior is still in the top 50% of centres in this game is a very sad indictment of SL and its youth development.'"
Of course young players have to play, but they also have to be of a certain standard in the first place, do you seriously think that EVERY club in SL has 2 young centres just waiting to be unleashed upon SL?
It's a silly argument to suggest that no club in SL should sign Senior in case it might block some mythical youngsters development, regardless of that youngsters and Seniors relative abilities. That's an argument that clubs shouldn't ever sign anyone and should play their youngsters regardless of ability or readiness.
Presumably you think Saints shouldn't have signed Jamie Lyon then. After all he blocked Ian Hardman's development.
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| Quote: thebloodbath "Quote: thebloodbath "I repeat - the fact most on here are suggesting Senior is still in the top 50% of centres in this game is a very sad indictment of SL and its youth development.'"
Or you could see it as the last roar of Super League's Greatest Ever Centre.
Depends how you view a glass at 50% capacity.'"
I've just come to the conclusion that perhaps it's no coincidence that Sal Paradise is an anagram of Alas! Despair.
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| Regarding who is the best centre ever to play in SL, it is difficult on how you define best!
Judging both players on how good each player was at his peak then I would say Jamie Lyon is better (not by a long way), however judging on his contribution to SL then Senior gets it (by a mile).
Luckily there are 2 centre spots available in a team and one with both of them in at there best wouldnt be half bad.
Paul Newlove and Tuigamala (sp) were not bad either
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| I've no idea where he's going, but we'd all be happy to have him at Keighley! As well as being a top player - he could certainly do a job at Championship level - he'd get the crowds coming down, important from our point of view.
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| Hull Kod R'eds from what I here
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| We've massively enjoyed seeing Keith Senior at his very best at Headingley, tearing holes in defences and feeding his wingers brilliantly. I would prefer him to retire completely following his injury, as this is surely the best way to remember him without potentially suffering further indignities on the field.
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| Quote: Him "Quote: Him "Quote: Him "Quote: Him "Keith Senior may well be past his best, but his best was so far ahead of 90% of the centres we produce in this country, that even now he's a good option for a lot of Super League clubs. Leeds need to look to the future now, IMO, but I'd be a bit surprised if no SL club finds a place for Senior in thier squad if he recovers properly from his injury.'"
Yep I'd agree with that. Senior is better than many alternatives in SL currently. Playing a young lad instead of Senior simply because they're young doesn't suddenly mean that SL have produced a youngster of better quality. If hes better than the alternative his age is irrelevant.'"
OK so how do the young players develop - how do they get the top level game experiance required to be a top player - sometimes you have to take a step back to take a leap forward.
I repeat - the fact most on here are suggesting Senior is still in the top 50% of centres in this game is a very sad indictment of SL and its youth development.'"
Of course young players have to play, but they also have to be of a certain standard in the first place, do you seriously think that EVERY club in SL has 2 young centres just waiting to be unleashed upon SL?
It's a silly argument to suggest that no club in SL should sign Senior in case it might block some mythical youngsters development, regardless of that youngsters and Seniors relative abilities. That's an argument that clubs shouldn't ever sign anyone and should play their youngsters regardless of ability or readiness.
Presumably you think Saints shouldn't have signed Jamie Lyon then. After all he blocked Ian Hardman's development.'"
Hardman was a winger - it could be argued that playing with Lyon actually helped his development?
You aren't seriously suggesting signing a 35 year old still recovering from a career threatening injury is comparable to signing an Aussie test centre in his prime!! A player who has subsequently gone on to play a major role in two NRL GF winning sides. We haven't produced a centre in the whole SL era as good as Lyon and that includes Senior.
Senior was struggling in his last season at Leeds to produce performances of SL standard - that was before his injury? His pace and power had gone and the less said about his defence the better.
There are young centres out there that deserve a chance before a 35 year old who sole objective is a personal goal of 600 games and he will go anywhere that will help him reach that. He doesn't care about the team his comments in his book and on twitter suggest a very bitter individual who thinks the games owes him a living.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "There are young centres out there that deserve a chance before a 35 year old who sole objective is a personal goal of 600 games and he will go anywhere that will help him reach that.'"
I actually agree a bit with this. It worried me that while at Leeds he would often mention his goal of 600 games and wanting to outlast others as the only player to play in every Super League season, whilst seeming to disreguard that performance and fitness would have a bearing on this.
As for whether there are good enough young centres out there, that is a different question. If clubs had better options available nobody would be interested in signing him.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "Quote: Sal Paradise "Keith Senior may well be past his best, but his best was so far ahead of 90% of the centres we produce in this country, that even now he's a good option for a lot of Super League clubs. Leeds need to look to the future now, IMO, but I'd be a bit surprised if no SL club finds a place for Senior in thier squad if he recovers properly from his injury.'"
Yep I'd agree with that. Senior is better than many alternatives in SL currently. Playing a young lad instead of Senior simply because they're young doesn't suddenly mean that SL have produced a youngster of better quality. If hes better than the alternative his age is irrelevant.'"
OK so how do the young players develop - how do they get the top level game experiance required to be a top player - sometimes you have to take a step back to take a leap forward.
I repeat - the fact most on here are suggesting Senior is still in the top 50% of centres in this game is a very sad indictment of SL and its youth development.'"
Of course young players have to play, but they also have to be of a certain standard in the first place, do you seriously think that EVERY club in SL has 2 young centres just waiting to be unleashed upon SL?
It's a silly argument to suggest that no club in SL should sign Senior in case it might block some mythical youngsters development, regardless of that youngsters and Seniors relative abilities. That's an argument that clubs shouldn't ever sign anyone and should play their youngsters regardless of ability or readiness.
Presumably you think Saints shouldn't have signed Jamie Lyon then. After all he blocked Ian Hardman's development.'"
Hardman was a winger - it could be argued that playing with Lyon actually helped his development?
You aren't seriously suggesting signing a 35 year old still recovering from a career threatening injury is comparable to signing an Aussie test centre in his prime!! A player who has subsequently gone on to play a major role in two NRL GF winning sides. We haven't produced a centre in the whole SL era as good as Lyon and that includes Senior.
Senior was struggling in his last season at Leeds to produce performances of SL standard - that was before his injury? His pace and power had gone and the less said about his defence the better.
There are young centres out there that deserve a chance before a 35 year old who sole objective is a personal goal of 600 games and he will go anywhere that will help him reach that. He doesn't care about the team his comments in his book and on twitter suggest a very bitter individual who thinks the games owes him a living.'"
In that case why can't a young winger at a bottom half SL club benefit from playing with Senior?
The relative abilities of an aged Senior and a prime Lyon are irrelevant. All that's relevant is whether they were better options than what was in the clubs reserve grade.
Was he? Was Senior the worst centre in SL before his injury? I'd suggest he was t and still isn't the worst centre in SL. Which would then suggest that there is still a place for him within SL somewhere.
I'll say it again, which youngsters at bottom half SL clubs would Senior be adversly affecting their development by signing for a year?
It just appears that you have taken a dislike to him for being honest in a book and you misunderstanding his comments toward a fellow player and friend.
Also you have made great play on his wish to reach 600 games, why is that an unreasonable goal? He's won everything going, what is wrong with wanting 600 first grade appearances?
As said above, if he's not good enough nobody would be interested.
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| Quote: Him "Quote: Him "Quote: Him "Quote: Him "Quote: Him "Quote: Him "Keith Senior may well be past his best, but his best was so far ahead of 90% of the centres we produce in this country, that even now he's a good option for a lot of Super League clubs. Leeds need to look to the future now, IMO, but I'd be a bit surprised if no SL club finds a place for Senior in thier squad if he recovers properly from his injury.'"
Yep I'd agree with that. Senior is better than many alternatives in SL currently. Playing a young lad instead of Senior simply because they're young doesn't suddenly mean that SL have produced a youngster of better quality. If hes better than the alternative his age is irrelevant.'"
OK so how do the young players develop - how do they get the top level game experiance required to be a top player - sometimes you have to take a step back to take a leap forward.
I repeat - the fact most on here are suggesting Senior is still in the top 50% of centres in this game is a very sad indictment of SL and its youth development.'"
Of course young players have to play, but they also have to be of a certain standard in the first place, do you seriously think that EVERY club in SL has 2 young centres just waiting to be unleashed upon SL?
It's a silly argument to suggest that no club in SL should sign Senior in case it might block some mythical youngsters development, regardless of that youngsters and Seniors relative abilities. That's an argument that clubs shouldn't ever sign anyone and should play their youngsters regardless of ability or readiness.
Presumably you think Saints shouldn't have signed Jamie Lyon then. After all he blocked Ian Hardman's development.'"
Hardman was a winger - it could be argued that playing with Lyon actually helped his development?
You aren't seriously suggesting signing a 35 year old still recovering from a career threatening injury is comparable to signing an Aussie test centre in his prime!! A player who has subsequently gone on to play a major role in two NRL GF winning sides. We haven't produced a centre in the whole SL era as good as Lyon and that includes Senior.
Senior was struggling in his last season at Leeds to produce performances of SL standard - that was before his injury? His pace and power had gone and the less said about his defence the better.
There are young centres out there that deserve a chance before a 35 year old who sole objective is a personal goal of 600 games and he will go anywhere that will help him reach that. He doesn't care about the team his comments in his book and on twitter suggest a very bitter individual who thinks the games owes him a living.'"
In that case why can't a young winger at a bottom half SL club benefit from playing with Senior?
The relative abilities of an aged Senior and a prime Lyon are irrelevant. All that's relevant is whether they were better options than what was in the clubs reserve grade.
Was he? Was Senior the worst centre in SL before his injury? I'd suggest he was t and still isn't the worst centre in SL. Which would then suggest that there is still a place for him within SL somewhere.
I'll say it again, which youngsters at bottom half SL clubs would Senior be adversly affecting their development by signing for a year?
It just appears that you have taken a dislike to him for being honest in a book and you misunderstanding his comments toward a fellow player and friend.
Also you have made great play on his wish to reach 600 games, why is that an unreasonable goal? He's won everything going, what is wrong with wanting 600 first grade appearances?
As said above, if he's not good enough nobody would be interested.'"
You are either stupid or are just arguing for the sake of it.
The 600 games is all he is focused on - he will no go to a side where he can help develop young talent he will go to whichever club will allow him to reach that goal.
So if he goes to Hull KR which seems an option then either Jake Webster - a highly paid overseas player or Kris Whelam will have to drop out it is very unlikely Webster will get the chop so a young British centre will be sat on the side lines.
No one has signed him as yet and all clubs are back in pre-season, maybe Keighley is the only real option?
Senior last season, was one of the poorest centres in SL, albeit in side that was very poor at the time - he has since had an injury that has wrecked the career of many younger players. It is hard to develop young players too hard for most clubs. You only have to look at the success of the Rhinos to see what happens when you get it right. I have nothing against Senior I just think as a game we need to be focussing all our efforts on developing younger players. We don't have P&R and whether Keith Senior plays or not it isn't going to be critical factor in the success of any side.
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| If Welham wasnt such a disaster defensively then it would likely be Webster who would be dropped, or moved to the wing. The person to blame for Welhams failings is Welham, its mental to blame Senior for the fact he is better that other options.
What you need to be complaining about is HKR having so many highly paid overseas players and putting so little in to youth development that they dont have a better prospect than a 35 year old Senior who is coming back from serious injury, not Senior for wanting to play.
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| There is absolutely NO way Hull KR would recruit Senior to play in front of Welham or Webster, they see his usefulness elsewhere and as back up.
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| which centre is he harming carrying on ? anyone and everyone and perhaps long term himself
we try and beat the aussies with a 30 yr old pack. worked in the 70s till they hammered us in the 80s with a side mainly 21/22yr old
will leeds get away with an old pack again? possibly because others are...
should we play a proper stand off? yes, unfortunately a loose forward can win finals domestically playing stand off but never internationally.
Leeds would haver not improved last year with senior playing instead of ablett and the starting of hardaker and benching of burrow was arguably more luck than judgement
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