Ive zero issue with criticism of the performance we were way off.

My issue would be extrapolting that one performance to mean we aren’t going to do anything this season.

These performances do happen and if Agar was sugar coating it id be disappointed.

Sorry in advance for the long post...

That was awful, individualy, collectively and coaching.

Soft and lacking size coming off the bench, going into the season with 4 props was always going to be a problem, especially when one of them 4 is Holroyd, who's injured more often than he's not. Opinions differ on bench rotations but for me every matchday squad should have 4 genuine props, 2 starting 2 off the bench,its tried and tested over years and works, no need to overthink it, the wider squad should carry 6. As already mentioned, we'v got too many 'middles' like Donaldson, Thompson, Smith, O'Connor, Mustapha ...And not enough props. For me this needs adressed, Smith starting 13, O'Connor backup 13, Mustapha 'Middle' is plenty...Dont resign Thompson and try to offload Donaldson...Sign a big NRL prop and Tyler Dupree, best young prop in championship, played nearly 30 games at that level now and he's been his teams best player, or close to it, in just about every one of them, Widnes fans love him already. This isnt knee jerk from last night, despite that awful effort from Donaldson and Thompson on Mago from the kickoff. Last night just emphasised what we all knew...2 games in and Holroyds already injured and Miks playing on one leg.

Despite Shabino desperately trying to use last night as proof he's right about Hurrell, he's not, centres are ok (even if they wernt, Hurrell isnt the answer) but we need to start playing Broadbent, he's 21 now, an England knights player and ready for regular rugby in his natural position, Suttcliffe and Briscoe are ok for 3/4 choice but again Briscoe shouldnt be renewed end of the season and i wouldn't be against moving Suttcliffe on then either...We'd know what we have with Broadbent at centre by then if we actually play him there in our strongest team, nearly all his games have been out of position and in makeshift teams, its remarkable he's done aswel as he has. If he's good enough, great, if he's not, then we look for another option, internaly or from another club, im convinced he's good enough, but atleast we'd know either way.

Mellors such a nothing player, no punch, dosnt dent the line and too nice, he actually started with a bit more vigor than usual last night, but reverted to normal pretty quickly, again, wouldnt renew. Walters is pretty much the same player, just bigger,younger with the potential to be a bit more, no need for both of them.

Walkers a quality player who had a shocking game in his second one back, iv got total faith he'l come good, it will just take some time.

God knows why Johnson was at , ridiculous call, leeming to half, Johnson 9 with Austin and Mellor in 2nd row and centre. Result wouldn't of been affected but give the lad half a chance ffs.

Sean Long, still not convinced, everthing still appears such hard work when we'r in good attacking ball. Was hoping for a bit more cohesion. 16 mins last week and Yday is a Small sample size i know. Dont know if its by design or our players are losing there composure, but our short kicking game is rubbish, in that we dont have one, we sign sezer who's got one of the best short kicking games in the league, then decide to run on last tackle nearly every set near there line, crazy.

Our line speed was non existent last night, Wigan were left to run sideways across our line all night, that usually isnt going to win games of rugby league, but our line speed was so poor, they had all the time in the world to find the right option, be that dropping some off on a different angle, a kick or an offload.

Yellow card for Tindall, my god, absolute joke, whats the game coming to, should charnley of got Yellow last week for much worse on handleys try, does it matter if he scored, the intent was there from charnley. Only thing more frustrating than the yellow was listening to the idiot video ref talking through it. Marshall didnt even ask for it, irrelevant to last nights result but the game as a whole is going to sh*te if thats yellow.

I really like Agar, im glad he's at the club, think the plan the club seem to have is the correct one, Rich moving to DOR when we find the right coach to take over. Again not knee jerk to the start we'v had, think its obvious that the club and Agar feel the same, for me he's much better suited to running the whole rugby operation than just being the coach.

Thought Tindall showed the raw abilty he's got, he's always knew whats required from a winger in the yardage game, always had the speed and explosive ability, still got things to work on, but he's got a chance.

Lastly, my god, we have awful luck, injurys are unbelievable, that first try last night, Couldn't write it.

Well I think that's everything covered mattsrhinos1978 happy to lock this and move on to last week on that post.

This is best post on here for a long time. Pretty much spot on…..

Nah i liked tours yesterday which you deleted

Just kidding I think that post sums it up, Agar should move to DOR but we have to make sure the next coaching appointment is important and shouldn’t be knee jerk.

Dont think anyones said any different to what your saying here, Bentleys a good player if... The 'if' is the problem, so far he hasnt shown any signs of sorting his discipline out, if last week was an isolated incident then fair enough, but it was a continuation of as bad a run of discipline as iv ever seen from a player the second half of last season, even in the games he managed to avoid getting sin binned, the ammount of six agains and penaltys he gave away was unbelievable. Saints fans were pulling there hair out with him.

The Bentley we want to see would have been an asset last night and will be going forward.

The Bentley thats taken the field in his last block of 15 or so games and we'd of likely got beat by more than we did.

He needs to sort it out, if he does, great signing, if he dosnt, then he's a liability.

I said on the night that maybe 3 of Wigans try`s looked debatable.
Confirmed on Sky that the Bibby flick and the Powell knee tries should not have stood.
That along with Powells 50/50 knock on and we might have been saying what a great coach Agar is.
For me Sezer was the most disappointing after his first game against Wire.
Tindall should keep his place and Broadbent for Briscoe who is now 3 years past his best.
Sutcliffe I think has been tried in every position bar front row and still can`t cement a place.

Absolutely spot on with everything there Matt.
Excellent post.
Let's move on to next week....

Yes you should, but I thought it was funny that you deleted it when we went ahead on the scoreboardicon_smile.gif

Great to see kendal has brought his whistle for the TV cameras again. I wonder if he's brought both cards?

Yellow out, hardly even a penalty that, players milked it.

Not worth watching a game when he’s on.

And why on earth did he go to VR there

what exactly did they say about these please? i wasnt able to watch the post-match coverage