How annoying and boring is this now? We could win every game in a season, win the GF in scintillating fashion and still not be considered great. Throughout the season we might not have been the best, but the season ends on GF day and all the players accept that. When they talk about finishing top, it isn't because they can claim to be the best that year, but because it gives them a better chance on the playoffs. Read what other players say about Leeds' success and they respect what they've achieved because only they truly know the effort it takes to win from 5th. Throw into the mix that we've played in every round of the cup for the last 3 years, missed 1 playoff game in 5 years and missed 1 WCC in 5 years. That's why this team should be regarded as one of the greatest of all times.

Wigan won it in 2010 and people proclaimed that they were going to dominate. But their 'great' side hasn't done it. Even more reason why this Leeds team should be considered great.

Any team who wins the grand final deserves it, and deserves the respect of everyone else. All games contain that element of luck so that's a none argument.

I couldn't care a less what other fans want to say. We all know the format at the start of the year, and are happy about the format when our teams are chasing a spot. In the eyes of the people who matter. I doubt any other set of fans will be able to experience what we have and in my eyes, and I dare say everyone else with blue and amber in their veins, in the years to come we'll smile when reminiscing over our domination.

Firstly, asnyone who doesn't think the Grand Final is the best thing to happen to our sport is seroiously deluded. Having the first past the post decide the champions would be so regressive and damaging financially it should not be considered.

As has been pointed out, repeatedly to the newcomers, Rugby League, like MOST team sports has decidced it's champions via a playoff format for the vast majority of it's history aside from a brief period between 1972 and 1997.

Who can tell us where many of the great championship winning teams from before 1972 finished during the league season and who cares?

The legendary Huddersfield team of th 1910 and 1920s won five titles in those decades via a playoffs. Without Wiki, where did they finish and does anyone care? The great Swinton team won four titles from 1926 to 1931 via a playoff system.

The MAJORITY of Wigan's titles (11 of 19) were won under a playoff format.

Anyone who thinks the winners of the Grand Final or Championship final are not worthy champions is, frankly, an idiot with little understanding of the history of Rugby League.

By all means debate the playoff formats strengths and weaknesses. That is a valid discussionm. But the subject of the team winning the GF being valid champions should not be discussed by anyone who is a Rugby League fan. Unless, of course they are a parochial, bitter, insular rugby leaghue observer.

As has been pointed out if the Wakefield luddite is against the Playoffs determining the champions will he accept that Wakefield have never been true champions as thier only two titles were earned under a playoff format. Let me educate you on your club's history Kinlleycat. Your team didn't finish top in either of the season's it won back to back championships. In both seasons that Wakefield trinity were crowned Champions the league leaders were LEEDS RLFC.

Thw worst thing the RFL could have done was introduce the dinnerplate as a fop for the moaning luddites. Take it away now and end this banal and ignorant discussion.

Read the thread title and assumed it must be to do with our new "Champions 2012" edition shirt.

Perfectly put

Could I give a gentle reminder to all Wigan fans the super league and grand final format is open to all teams in super league. Feel free to to assemble a team good enough to win the trophy from any position in the top eight as we have.
Please don't thank me for this piece of advice, as a keen Rhinos fan I feel it is my Christian duty to help out those of lesser good fortune than us.

100% agree G ,and Backwoodsman how kind of you

Here's a way the other clubs can end the fiasco that is destroying our sport: defeat Leeds in the play offs or the Grand Final. No can do, apparently.

Olympic gold medals are not given to the fastest qualifier

With all the griping and moaning regarding the champions being decided by winning the grand final, i think it would be fun to win it 7th or 8th next year.

I would love that to happen, the Samaritan organization in the Wigan area would go into meltdown.

Yep. Against Wigan in the final. McGuire obstructs Tomkins to get to the loose ball then runs the length of the field, whilst sticking 2 fingers up at Shaun Wane, to score the match winning try.

Wigan are still most excellent. A list of their recent glories has appeared on their forum. I quote

Well better than the Hulls anyway...

Sorry, no I can't

I made the mistake of looking on the VT. The numpties embarrasing themselves on here are mental colossuses compared to the dongs posting there. It's like drowning in the combined excrement from a thousand mental institutions.

Reminded me why I couldn't be bothered posting for two months.