It is precisely this sort of arrogant, extremist attitude that so many of the normal public voted against on Thursday.

I've already stated my evidence. Did you bother reading? Thought not.

Democracy isn't winning or losing it is the right to an opinion & the right to vote in accordance with your opinions.

The Leave leaders are already retracting their promises.

As a member & active in another political party it isn't up to me to make that call. He certainly holds views most similar to mine out of all the candidates I can think of. But that doesn't necessarily make him electable. IMO he has been far too quiet since elected in taking on the Tories & far, far too quiet during the EU debate. He might be trying a new, more honourable form of politics but unfortunately that goes pretty much unnoticed. If we assume the current political system continues then Labour look like the only opposition so someone who looks good & says the right things is sadly necessary.

What if: Cameron only went to the leave side to ensure the message was one of weakness and fear of change so that the Leave side had a clearer run, in the full knowledge of the Tory party that this would trigger another indyref in Scotland and therefore ensure that there would be Tory rule over England and Wales until Doomsday? Personally I don't believe it's true, but I do believe it's possible...

What kind of political opposition are you referring to?

The reason I ask is because there hasn't been any opposition to neoliberalism since 1983.

An increasing number of people no longer see any difference between neoliberal versions of either Tory or Labour led governments.

What are you talking about promises? The vote was not for a manifesto, it was purely about leaving the EU which we are going to do.

When are you leaving the EU?

If you're going to argue, at least have the decency to read your own post. You saidwhich was the basis of most people who voted leave"
I highlight the pertinent phrase.
No one in the entire world knows the basis for why most people (that voted that way) voted to leave. If you did you would know my basic reason, my neighbour's etc etc & the truth is that you don't.
I know that you are upset, but please don't make sweeping generalisations, based only on your feelings & not facts, when talking about people with a view opposed to that of yours.



Where have I said otherwise? I said, & I quote: "Yet another who loses an argument (the referendum)". The referendum (& thereby the argument) was lost by the Remainers was it not?

Same time as you.

I can see big problems in several months time, when the voters from the poorer section of the community who voted to leave don't receive the cuddly toys or social housing .
Unfortunatley a lot of voters used the occasion to bash the Tories, things will carry on as before for them.
Both Tory and labour have not built enough social housing , Farage as per Donald Trump put the blame on those pesky immigrants.
It looks odds on Scotland will leave the uk and will be welcomed into the European Union . Plus the fact that the majority of the younger population are now feeling let down from the political system.
I note several of the right wing press are crowing at Cameron's downfall and also hoping that our our departure brings down the whole of the European Union . Utter madness . What an utter shambles .

Double post

PS I hope we leave the EU as soon as is practical but this in no way affects where I live.

You are still failing to understand the vote was about the intense dislike if the EU and those that voted to Leave understand it wiil take a couple of years before we get back control.

Scotland would be mad to risk another referendum in case they win it! They would have to join the Euro.... Very bad idea. The majority of their exports are to England so this would bring exchange rate costs and tariffs if the EU play silly beggars. Also their economy is not strong enough to avoid austerity. As a democrat I wish them well if that is what they want

It is not a fact that the majority of young voters feel let down from the political system it is your opinion. My opinion is that young people understand democracy better than you.

Why do you regard a triumph of democracy to be a shambles. The people have taken the chance to decide their future and nothing can be better than that.

Nothing has actually changed yet. The UK is still in the EU, it doesn't sound like there is any rush to trigger article 50, lots still to and will happen between now and then.

PM in waiting at the start of this process appeared to be hoping for a leave vote only as a prelude to a genuine renegotiation of the terms to UK's EU membership as opposed to the faux one delivered by the then incumbent.

Parliament is sovereign, the vast majority of the house were in favour of remain, the referendum is advisory and these are politicians.

I consider myself a young(ish) voter, and I voted to leave. Calling anyone who voted to leave a racist, or xenophobe is exactly why we're in this situation. There has been a large minority of anti eu, anti-immigration sentiment in this country for a long time, and instead of addressing this with a legitimate, reasoned debate, these people were arrogantly dismissed by the political elite, and the regressive left. Now the crazies on the right of the Tory party now have a genuine mandate to push their agenda.
Now if Corbyn had stuck to his principles instead of pandering to the dogmatic Blairites and backed the leave camp he could've shifted the debate away from immigration, and not alienated many of the 18-30 voters who got him elected in the first place. and he'd have been in a strong position to challenge the Torries.

I see 'Lord' Hill has resigned as the UK EU commissioner. I wonder how many people knew who he was before today? It's another example of the opaque undemocratic nature of the EU. The EU Commissioner is one of the most powerful, and important positions within the EU, yet it's a position given to a peer, selected by other peers.