Who's your borther? I'll likely have played with him.

I can't claim to be responsible for how the Outlaws approach the game, but it was a massive part of my decision to become so involved at the club. Its a real family club, with a focus on doing things the right way.

There will always be the odd nutter on the sidelines. The key to stopping the sort of goading is to nip it in the bud before it becomes ingrained. There have been a couple of over excited parents this year. Someone having the balls to go up to them and tell them that their behaviour is not acceptable at a RL game is all it takes to resolve the situation.

Where that nutter is actually closer to being the majority, I would suggest the battle has already been lost

Sounds fairly sensible to me. Kids shouldn't be punching each other (I know it happens, we had an incident in one of our age groups the other week), but it's just not allowed to continue or be part of the game in any way. Having not played RL I don't know how often it happens compared to Union, but I've played against league players who filled half the Warrington Union side I played against many years ago and found them completely fair (although they did hit very, very hard!). My experience of junior club rugby in Union is that every now and then the forwards need to sort out things the ref isn't. There are so many ways to "spoil" in Union at the breakdown that it's the place that it usually kicks off. In days past you could ruck the **** out of someone killing the ball and I've even seen a guy clearing rucks by punching anyone he could see in the way. I have had two or three "fights" in rugby, almost all that I've started (not proud). I'm rubbish at it and the last punch I threw everyone on my own team laughed at - and rightly so.
IMO rugby has a big element of controlled aggression and physical confrontation which sometimes boils over - it's not about fighting.

Dave Varley, he's not been playing regularly but plays the odd game here and there. I've been to watch him a couple of times and been impressed by both the positive atmosphere and the willingness to at least try and move the ball around. It's the way game should be played at amateur level in my view and the people involved with the Outlaws should be proud of their club.

You're spot on with your comment re nipping it in the bud as well, sadly there are just too many coaches and club officials who either can't be bothered or just don't care to try stop it at many other clubs

Ah yes, I know Dave. I wish he'd been able to make it down a bit more often as he was a player who had a bit of size about him. Something not many of us have, which is probably why we tend to move the ball about a bit

I play amateur level for a club in Leeds, and abuse from the sidelines is part and parcel of playing away (it shouldn't be, but it is). It's not just the players that get abuse either, the referee too. If it's intimidating for us as a team of 17 rugby players, it must be awful for a ref being completely on their own.

It does seem to be part of the culture in amateur RL, and it's not hard to see that the attitude must filter down to junior levels.

You don't coach the juniors do you?

Seriously though, it does sound like there is an example being set in the Midlands, and probably more clubs and, more crucially, the leagues, need to follow DHM's example too and just start refusing to sanction fixtures involving "problem" teams, unless they learn to behave.

Being a tad on the small side for RL, I played amateur football from the age of 6 until my ankles refused to allow it anymore. The same problems exist. Some leagues handle it better than others. I've played in leagues where the committee persistently do nothing about repeat offenders and it puts clubs in a difficult position. You can refuse to play, but that risks fines and also deprives you f the chance of 6 points per season, which hardly seems fair. I played my last couple of seasons in a Warwickshire league, which featured a team who had received 12 red cards by Christmas in my last season. Generally these were for serious foul play (read 'attempted murder') or fighting, and generally too late in matches to have any bearing on the outcome. They also tended to have a lot of red cards against them, from people taking the law into their own hands. Which I don't condone, but a lot of the refs were understandably intimidated by some of the stuff that went on. The league took no action against the club and as far as I know, said club are still in business in the top division. A status they tend to maintain by kicking ten bells out of some of the younger teams until they give in.

I'd guess that's a familiar tale for a lot of people involved in amateur RL?

And therein lies the crux of the problem.

It tends to be those representing the "problem" clubs who shout loudest at league management committee meetings, who throw their weight around then threaten to throw their toys out of the pram at the first hint of sanction, who have been on the committee for 20-odd years and have built up a little clique of those clinging to their coat tails desperate for their own sniff of power.

Rugby Union at lower levels is run by people who do it for the love of the game. Amateur RL is run primarily (in my experience around Leeds anyway) for their own benefit by those who are on an ego trip.

I can think of a Sunday football league not a million miles away from the NW Leeds area which would fit that description down to the ground.

No wonder RU does so well at the grass roots is it?

For the sake of balance, I have also experienced agro & violence in Rugby Union, as well as League, though I tend to laugh it off, and get on with it, and hit the dirty fekker harder next time he has the ball

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We don't play mini or junior fixtures against our local large town because one of their parents assualted one of our juniors during a match a couple of years a go. They either change their culture or we don't go near them.
We still played them at senior level though and I found their 2nd team to be a good bunch last year (especially the guy who I butted heads with - we both ended up chatting in casualty), but their firsts and their supporters were a bunch of c***s. Thankfully not in our league this year.

We do seem to suffer a discrepancy between our adults approach, and our juniors.

As usual, some good & intelligent posts from the board's coaching fraternity. Dunno whether others feel the same but I always find this stuff worth reading.