Whilst I can understand the clamour for 2 year deals for these players, there is nowhere for them to go after u19's unless they become part of the 25 man squad. My understanding is that there are only5 players allowed on dual registration and if you have a 25 man squad you wean to use those players to keep them match fit.

Thank Christ someone has mentioned this. I spend more time trying to explain the game to these geeks than actually watching it. I made my thoughts about what I think of Kirke clear to my pal I was stood with and a lass turned round and said 'Well he has got 5 Grand Final rings and you couldn't do his job'............Deary me the days of having a good conversation on all things RL in the South Stand are long gone. Rugby League did start in 2004 you know!

Baldwinson is a prop/second rower.

At the start of this season he had Peacock, Leuluai, Bailey, Kirke, Moore, Griffin, Singleton, JJB, Ablett, Clarkson, Achurch and Ward in front of him for probably 8 spots in the matchday 17.

If he didn't acknowledge and appreciate that he would need to be patient and that it might require some injuries to those ahead of him before he got a shot at the first team then he wasn't being realistic IMO.

If he goes to NZ, that's a long way to go to be on your own and probably running around in one of their feeder clubs for the next two years. He's not George Burgess, not yet anyway. He's not going to walk into their first grade side IMO, so what has he got to gain from playing reserve grade out there?

The major questions to that post are

1. What does the start of the season have to do with May and June? Many games played during that time, form shown and should be based upon, and the player himself is a few months older and spent more time training with the first team.

2. Griffin went ages ago, Ward has been out injuired a long time, and have Kirke, Moore, Achurch, Clarkson, Bailey, really done enough this year to warrant that same pecking order that you had at the start of the season? if they haven't, and IMO they haven't, then what is the basis for what you put?

I'm surprised how hard some are being on Kirke. As a neutral, I thought he had a good game.
You can always pick up on individual errors if you are watching for him and already have him down as a poor player but I didn't see that.
I'd be interested to see his stats but he looked good to me.

Well the Vickery thread has gone off the bottom of the page now, so we need someone else to target for our bad run of games on. Kidding!

In terms of Kirke though - I always thought he was below par for Leeds. He has to be the softest rugby player for his size behind Karl Pryce - and Pryce is soft.

Someone mentioned about Achurch falling into the category of another disappointment - I have to agree with this statement too. He doesn't offer anything different for Leeds and he definately hasn't given anything to his Hunslet games. If he was playing for Hunslet week in week out Leeds would never have looked at him and thought "oh, he's a nice big promising chap, lets have him" - he would never have been signed.

Looks as though Leeds will need pretty much a new pack next year.

Highly thought of at 16 is one thing and only becomes relevant when a player is physically and mentally ready for SL which is wholly different.

With due respect rhinoms you keep making out you know better than the Champions professional coaches and management about player development and contract management. Are you also saying you are in possession of the full facts on each player? Are you saying you know the full facts regarding any contract discussions that may or may not have taken place. Are you saying you know what other recruitment options are being considered? This is a business they are running not a youth club.

As it is Singleton made his debut in 2011 and played for the 1st team again in 2012 and had dual reg with Dewsbury and this year with Wakefield who let him go after one game. He has been around the first team squad this year and now has his chance to prove his worth. What is wrong with that?

Kylie has been in great form this year and fully deserves the one year extention as with JP. Kirke also has been playing some of his best rugby and has been rated by several coaches as a steady benchman type reserve. and is arguably better this season than when he won all those GF rings.

The same with Sutcliffe he has now made about 5 1st team appearances after again being around the 1st team squad this year. This is how good development works. As a former junior coach I understand the responsibilties and difficulties in the jump from junior rugby to senior rugby. Despite your impatience you cannot just chuck them in after impressing in the under 19's there is far more to it than that in the players best interests. Also do you know for sure that Leeds are allowed to offer contracts to all these promising youngsters within the cap rules?

The best players in the ageing pack you speak of are currently the oldest and I would certaainly not be in a hurry to replace them. I am not privy to the contract or cap side of the business but the coaches have to make contract decisions at certain points in time and cannot take too many risks with promising youngsters. So often a 17/18 year old fails to fullfill that promise that previously looked so good.

Vickery was signed on a one year deal as cover for BJB after a 3 mth trial in which he also impressed and showed promise.

As I said before 1st team places at Leeds should not be easily attained and the youngsters should have to really fight for it. Ward, Singleton and Sutcliffe have done that Baldwinson and some of the others will get their chance too as cover for our injured players. Our system has done very well to produce such a good crop of youngsters so far so lets enjoy how it all pans out.

So much vociferous certainty in the face of the club's recent excellent record.

Are other teams in the sample group (successful SL clubs) doing things in accordance with this radical promotion of youth theory? Does anyone here have a detailed understanding of the contractual and salary cap constraints? Does anyone detect rumblings of discontent among the players about McDermott's cruel, unjust regime?

You keep repeating this like a bad fart. What relevance does this have to June 2013? and despite you keep pointing this out, others keep telling you that whilst the same players have had excellent success over a number of years, the current head coach has only had the two years part of that.



Again, not really relevant, as there is only one club with the success previously (I say previously, as I repeat this year has not produced anything yet, and this year is what is being spoken about, and nobody as suggested resting players for cup finals). However, one club is currently running away with the league at the moment, and remind us again what they have sucessfully done this year?

With due respect rhinoms you keep making out you know better than the Champions professional coaches and management about player development and contract management. Are you also saying you are in possession of the full facts on each player? Are you saying you know the full facts regarding any contract discussions that may or may not have taken place. Are you saying you know what other recruitment options are being considered? This is a business they are running not a youth club.

Where have i said that i "know better" ??
I've posted an opinion and whilst attending many U19's games and junior games in the past i know full well how highly rated these lads are.
Whatever your opinions are the obvious is right in front of you in that these forward can't go on forever did you agree with Webb ,Senior ,Ali and before them Barrie Mc leaving when they all "could still have done a job"?.
I hope they are all retained and whatever the SC or squad rules state i'd take Baldwinson ,Singleton ,Sutclifffe etc etc now for the next 10yrs than retain Kirke ,Kylie and Moore for the next 1 or 2.
The Club were very good and showed no sentiments whatsoever with players that have served this Club with much more distinction when ditching them than some currently getting deals and games
With regards to Burrow ,Mags Bailey ,Ward ,Disko etc etc ALL were tied to contracts at an early age and like i've posted i personally know for a FACT the Acadamy staff all rate the current crop in that bracket.
My opinion is just that an opinion and whatever the outcome i suppport the team and Club but that deosn't mean i have to agree with every signing ,release or selection policy.
Also the places/selections would have been earned through performance when others were severely lacking in form just as Ward did when he broke through last year its the same with the lads i and others have mentioned.
Plenty of double standards from you JC you say places should be earned yet defend the selection of players not earning them through form, you agree with the Clubs record of transition with the likes of Senior et al but refuse or disagree it should be continued for others like it has in the past.
I've not once claimed to be better than those running the club but have clearly disagreed with some things that have occured is EVERYTHING they do really 100% right in your eyes???
Shall we stop posting opinions that disagree with Coaches ,players etc etc i may not be a qualified Coach or even control the squad budgets but that doesn't mean i should agree 100% with those that do.
Finally in terms of Vickery i agreed with you when defending him earlier in the year i also accept when Kirke has played well that deosn't mean they should play on indefinately or even get new deals or continue with the ones they had.
Whilst the younger lads selected may make errors and have stacks to learn ALL have shown enough potential to show they can play and in alot of cases shown they are easily a step up on certain individuals or at the very least match the jobs older lads and other squad members in front of them have done.
All i'm sayng is stick to the policy and transition plans that we have done for the last 10yrs ACROSS THE WHOLE SQUAD.
There's still time i thiink to sign these lads up and set out a clear path for their futures and i hope that the Club achieve it because plan B is glaringly obvious that we'll have to recruit 4 or even 5 minimum new Forwards over the next 18mths/2yrs when it can be avoided or at the very least be restricted to 1 maybe 2.

So that's a no to all my questions, then.

The only clear, demonstrable basis for your critique of McDermott is an extreme personal prejudice against the guy.

Let me think now. The fact that Leeds would have been dropping out from under the sticks if luiluia had fairly tackled him behind the line rather than Leeds being on the half way line in possession 2 tackles later ought to be reason enough.

... is what Kevin Sinfield said on the subject in October last year.

Is there some equivocation in his statement the McDermott-haters would like to pick up on? Some hint of dismay expressed by our team's captain in McDermott's leadership?

Most criticisms of McDermott you're propagating can be better explained with something real: injury crisis, salary cap constraints etc. - rather than some poisonous fantasy.