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Quote: Keith Swiftcorn "Quite. Being a loiner equates to your social roots and relationships formed, your sense of belonging and your definitive sense of who you are in relation to the city of Leeds where you were born, raised and in many cases continue to reside.

The same does not apply to being a rhino because the rhinos is a commodity just like any other commodity which you can select to purchase from a shelf in a store among other competing-for-your-attention commodities on the market. This is why we end up with rastrick rhinos, batley rhinos, fieldhead rhinos, middleton rhinos, mirfield rhinos, farsley rhinos, etc, who do not belong and would have no affiliation to being a loiner - they are just purchasing a brand-name commodity from an out-of-town store because it's unavailable in their local store. And because it's only a commodity bearing no relation to oneself, that commodity can also be rejected on the grounds of not being of satisfactory quality - not as described - not fit for the purpose, etc, to be replaced with an alternative commodity purchase.

If someone pops into a supermarket, they may be tempted to purchase a commodity they wouldn't normally be interested in on the basis that if they buy one, they get another free. When it's discovered that commodity lacks quality, they rarely purchase it again. They would be less tempted by an offer consisting of buy 11 get 2 free, yet that's how the commodity of a season ticket works and is successfully marketed. And it works because many consumers are manipulated through successful marketing to attach an irrational devotion or fetish to that commodity - in this case, the rhinos commodity - which they apply excessive attention and reverence to. But it's just a commodity like any other when you cut through the marketing spin and expose it for what it really is.

I've never purchased a rhinos season ticket because I regard it as nothing more than a commodity just like any other commodity competing for my purchasing attention. It has no meaning beyond that - unlike the sense of real loiner community belonging which I had a personal and real attachment to prior to Super League. I don't regard the rhinos commodity as of satisfactory quality or fit for the purpose. I don't purchase 13 items from a supermarket (even if 2 are free) when I know that the vast majority of them are going to be rubbish, therefore I don't purchase 13 rounds of commodity rhinos regular round meaningless rubbish either.'"


icon_iamwithstupid.gif
I find this post really offensive, are you really saying that becuase I dont live in an LS postcode I shouldn't support Leeds.
I went to my first Leeds game over 25 years ago (Barrow at home in the cup 90-0), and have seen the worst times as well as the recent success.
I have seen many great players don the blue and amber over the years (as well as some terrible).
I was at oldham when we lost in 1996 and I have been to every grand final leeds have played in.
Im a leeds fan becuase my dad is, who in turn went with his dad. I have held a season ticket for years and am a proud southstander.
For a keyboard warrior like your self to criticise loyal fans is a joke.

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Quote: Keith Swiftcorn " SNIP'"


Swiftcorn reminds me of the little scruffy kid with his nose pressed up against the sweetie shop window, lacking the means to purchase any of the goodies on show, consoles himself by deciding he wouldn't like anything anyway. So there!

He is right though, in that the Rhinos is a commodity brand, and whether its the atmosphere in the Southstand, or any of the matchday catering options, its all marketed as The Headingley Experience. Onfield success simply boosts the brand and hopefully attracts more paying punters, but it's not really the be all and end all that many fans think.

Look at the Bradford Bulls. A below par performance on the field over the last three years hasn't affected the ability to raise 500k for the brand name. And even better for the BOD, it's all donations! There's no need for a new share issue when the gullible obligingly hand over their hard earned in exhange for the continuance of a well promoted brand name.

Now, if there's any Bulls fans interested, I have an iconic and world famous London structure available for a quick Easter sale...... with an extra 10% discount for season ticket holders, or those who Pledged!

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The full season ticket is poor value for money, it's discount is such that there are enough freebies and other discounts about that you are better off not getting one.

There is also a fair point to say that the quality of the product on the field makes it difficult to justify to myself in buying one. In recent years I have found the effort put in and the quality on show has been sadly lacking. I'd rather watch a poor side that tries and loses than a good side that doesn't show it's potential and wins. The number of awful teams in the top division doesn't help.

The squad is rarely improved and quality players departing are not replaced. The squad is supposedly good but fails to turn up in the big games (see our results against top 5 sides over the last two seasons) and often loses to the worst teams in the division. The club also prioritises the latter half of the season over the first in stead of looking at every game as important.I see buying a season ticket as endorsing these practices so for me I can't do it. Whilst there are thousands who will pay year in and year out no matter what these practises are unlikely to change.

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Quote: Rastrick Rhino "

Hmmm. I don't think he is saying that at all. I think the point he is making is that he chooses which games he wants to watch. He also states, quite clearly that pre Rhinos there was something about being a Leeds fan that has now gone. Something I wholeheartedly agree with. Hence my name on here.
I did not buy into the Rhinos franchise either, and ironically as the Rhinos have become more successful my interest has dissipated. There is no doubt that we have witnessed the greatest period in the clubs history, but I don't feel that the club needs my money anymore, and it shows in the disdain with which the ordinary fan is treated. So now I am at Dewsbury, where money is tight, and the £70 I paid for my season ticket is highly valued by the club, and my money over the bar the same.
Would I pay megabucks to be part of the Leeds Rhinos machine again? No. Am I a Leeds fan, yes, but when Challenge cup weekend comes around it'll be Dewsbury and London for me for the simple reason I feel that the club needs me and that engenders a sense of ownership that I haven't felt for Leeds in a long time.

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Quote: loinertillidie "Just picking a programme off the pile.

Leeds at home to Sheffield

Gibbons A
Fallon
Iro
Francis
Hassan
Holroyd
Gibbons D
Harvey
Shaw although my notes say Newton
Barrie
Moz
Ming
Forshaw
Golden
Picchi
Mann
Foz

My point being. You're damn right we've seen worse.'"



Would love to have a Gary Mercer, George Mann, and Kevin Iro in this squad right now.

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Quote: Hopie "The full season ticket is poor value for money, it's discount is such that there are enough freebies and other discounts about that you are better off not getting one.

There is also a fair point to say that the quality of the product on the field makes it difficult to justify to myself in buying one. In recent years I have found the effort put in and the quality on show has been sadly lacking. I'd rather watch a poor side that tries and loses than a good side that doesn't show it's potential and wins. The number of awful teams in the top division doesn't help.

The squad is rarely improved and quality players departing are not replaced. The squad is supposedly good but fails to turn up in the big games (see our results against top 5 sides over the last two seasons) and often loses to the worst teams in the division. The club also prioritises the latter half of the season over the first in stead of looking at every game as important.I see buying a season ticket as endorsing these practices so for me I can't do it. Whilst there are thousands who will pay year in and year out no matter what these practises are unlikely to change.'"


Whilst in the last couple of years the results in the weekly rounds have often been dissapointing, I wouldn't criticise the effort the players have put in.

I cannot comment on the Bradford game as I wasn't there, but certainly in the Hudds game the effort was there, we just couldn't make it count due to the lack of our creative players.

We should remember both 2010 and 2011 the team was badly dissrupted by injuries which was always going to affect results.

At the worst times last year you could see the defeats and performances hurt the players, but they stuck in there and got their reward. As long as the players put the effort in they will have my support, win or lose, it isn't our divine right to win every game.

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Quote: ThePrinter "Also, to insinuate that Leeds (or any other team) lose a game because they 'switch off during the regular season' knowing they can make up for it come playoff time is damn well disrespectful to those MEN.

Its also damn well disrespectful to the players of Saints, Hudds and Bradford to offer a reason of recent loses to 'Leeds lose because they know it doesn't matter'. Coming up with reasons why a team lose instead of reasons why a team won a game perhaps shows more about your negative way of thinking than it does the current state of Super League.'"

Are you seriously insinuating this is not the case in Super League? That the players and teams do not switch off and enter coasting mode when up against opposition in fixtures that don't really matter? Do the top clubs not rest players and field weakened teams in games they deem less important because they can afford to lose those games without affecting their chances of being in the play-offs?

Feel free to call it disrespectful (you'd be correct in doing so) but that is the reality. A lot of games during the regular rounds are meaningless, they don't matter and the quality isn't there. Leeds losing 3 in a row doesn't matter either. They'll still comfortably finish well-placed in the play-offs. That is the Super League product currently on offer and that's why I don't consider the season ticket commodity as a value for money purchase. If you wish to assign reverential, puritanical and mystical devotion to what is nothing more than a commodity, that's entirely up to you. It's still a faulty product not fit for the purpose and the worst part is that you're not covered under the Sale Of Goods Act for repair, replacement or your money back.

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Quote: Gotcha "Leeds continue with the backrow they have and the play offs will be a waste of time this year. It's quite a while since we had such an average starting backrow. No pace, no passing offloading ability. Ablest needs to be back outwide and give a youngster a go until players are back. You need pace in your backrow when your props don't have it either. Their defence is good, not going to take that away from them, but the flow of attack stops there.'"


You say the same every year. Sometimes though, we seem to win the GF.

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This thread is scraping the bottom of a very deep barrell

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4 pages (possibly 5 with this!) for one of the lamest trolls in decades? Really?
Keith will be livid. At least he makes an effort! icon_lol.gif

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Quote: Rastrick Rhino "I find this post really offensive, are you really saying that becuase I dont live in an LS postcode I shouldn't support Leeds.'"

You are free to purchase any commodity brand name you like in the same way that I prefer to purchase Heinz Salad Cream as opposed to other lesser well-known salad cream brands because I think it tastes better. I'm merely illustrating the difference between being a Loiner and supporting a club which represented the Loiner community, as opposed to purchasing a particular brand or commodity like the rhinos.

Quote: Rastrick Rhino "I went to my first Leeds game over 25 years ago (Barrow at home in the cup 90-0), and have seen the worst times as well as the recent success.
I have seen many great players don the blue and amber over the years (as well as some terrible).
I was at oldham when we lost in 1996 and I have been to every grand final leeds have played in.
Im a leeds fan becuase my dad is, who in turn went with his dad. I have held a season ticket for years and am a proud southstander'"

That was a long time ago when you supported a rugby league club. You may still believe you do but in reality, you don't. Unless you somehow believe that purchasing products related to the rhinos brand is the same as supporting a club which represents Leeds and the Loiner community. The rhinos brand doesn't and it never will. It's now a business first and foremost selling it's branded products to appeal to a larger market. Sure, the business will try and convince people that it does represent the Leeds community, for instance by expropriating the MOT song on a matchday, but for those who can see through the marketing bull, it represents nothing of the kind apart from engendering a faux community spirit in the hope of further maximising sales and profit. I have no feelings of abiding allegiance or loyalty to businesses selling their branded products, particularly when they are of a shoddy quality for the most part, hence why I wouldn't purchase their season ticket because it doesn't represent quality or value for money.

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Quote: Hopie "The full season ticket is poor value for money, it's discount is such that there are enough freebies and other discounts about that you are better off not getting one.

There is also a fair point to say that the quality of the product on the field makes it difficult to justify to myself in buying one. In recent years I have found the effort put in and the quality on show has been sadly lacking. I'd rather watch a poor side that tries and loses than a good side that doesn't show it's potential and wins. The number of awful teams in the top division doesn't help.

The squad is rarely improved and quality players departing are not replaced. The squad is supposedly good but fails to turn up in the big games (see our results against top 5 sides over the last two seasons) and often loses to the worst teams in the division. The club also prioritises the latter half of the season over the first in stead of looking at every game as important.I see buying a season ticket as endorsing these practices so for me I can't do it. Whilst there are thousands who will pay year in and year out no matter what these practises are unlikely to change.'"

Well said, and spot on.

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Quote: loinertillidie "Hmmm. I don't think he is saying that at all. I think the point he is making is that he chooses which games he wants to watch. He also states, quite clearly that pre Rhinos there was something about being a Leeds fan that has now gone. Something I wholeheartedly agree with. Hence my name on here.
I did not buy into the Rhinos franchise either, and ironically as the Rhinos have become more successful my interest has dissipated. There is no doubt that we have witnessed the greatest period in the clubs history, but I don't feel that the club needs my money anymore, and it shows in the disdain with which the ordinary fan is treated. So now I am at Dewsbury, where money is tight, and the £70 I paid for my season ticket is highly valued by the club, and my money over the bar the same.
Would I pay megabucks to be part of the Leeds Rhinos machine again? No. Am I a Leeds fan, yes, but when Challenge cup weekend comes around it'll be Dewsbury and London for me for the simple reason I feel that the club needs me and that engenders a sense of ownership that I haven't felt for Leeds in a long time.'"

That pretty much sums up my feelings and opinions as well. I'll pick and choose what games I wish to see and many of them will involve real community-based clubs as opposed to the rhinos brand in Super League. The rhinos play London Broncos tomorrow and that's about as unappealing and unappetisingly drab as it gets. No chance of a quality game there, especially only 3 days after the previous drab performance and encounter. I have absolutely no interest in this game, yet I'd probably end up going if I had a season ticket. It matters not a jot if the rhinos win or lose that game either. Just another run-of-the-mill regular round game against inferior opposition where Leeds will probably coast to a win despite an ordinary performance, yet also another meaningless regular round game which they can afford to lose without it making any difference to their chances in the long run.

Interestingly, I used to get scolded on here in the past for having the temerity to criticise rhinos performances and results during the regular seasons on the basis that those games don't matter - it's not even JULY yet - and Leeds will produce when it really counts - BELIEVE, etc. Now I've seen the light and changed my views on this (mainly due to the new play-off system which now rewards mediocrity throughout the regular season), the very same people are now critical because I'm being dismissive about the importance of the regular rounds and discourteous to other clubs in the competition when the rhinos lose to them. The levels of hypocrisy which emerge on this forum are truly stunning.

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Quote: loinertillidie "Just picking a programme off the pile.

Leeds at home to Sheffield - 22nd April 1996

Shaw although my notes say Newton - Your notes are correct
Mann - Should be Marcus Vassilakopoulos


My point being. You're damn right we've seen worse.'"


Leeds Won 36 - 22

LeedsSubsTriesGoals: Graham Holroyd (3), Francis Cummins

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You feel no connection or belonging to this Rhinos 'brand commodity ' yet you spend so much time on a Leeds RHINOS forum.

Hypocrisy.....its a terrible thing ain't it Keith.

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