Is it possible, and I know that I am coming from leftfield a little bit here, that the top 4 are good sides. That they are well drilled, well coached, young and enthusiastic. That they are well managed and that it's been coming for a while? And that even if Leeds were coached by Wayne Bennett for the last two years, Leeds would still be getting duffed up by the bounding young pups that are the new kids on the block?

Did every other fan site in SL start calling their coaches useless when TS started to win things. After all what did he know, he was just some dumbass Bartercard standoff.

Damo demonstrates his narrow minded view of RL once again. Leeds ground out results, but weren't entertaining. So, what is it Damo, Leeds should be showponies and not put the hard graft in when it requires it. Superb idea, no really.

Leeds may have been left behind a little or a lot, but it doesn't matter.

Perhaps, just perhaps GH has recognised what we all knew. the writing was on the wall, and rather than set up for some expensive knee jerk wallpapering exercise, he's gone for some longer term underpinning to build a new foundation for the future.

Personally, I hope Leeds play simple RL at Wembley, complete their sets. Come off the line like men possessed, put pressure on the Wigan line. Cause mistakes. Then truck it up for another six. We can't beat Wigan at expansive RL, we can beat them at McDermotts unentertaining, grinding out victories style.

I'd take a boring win with a high completion rate and a good tackle count over a thrilling loss.

I like my rugby league to be sublime and not grime.

Professional rugby league is all about entertainment and yes you have to do a lot of hard graft in order to emerge entertaining. Wigan for example seem to be working more harder than anyone else at the moment and it’s showing on the field. They’re show ponies and stallions all rolled into one are the Wigan players at the moment. It’s absolutely pleasurable and breath-taking to watch at times.

Perhaps I do have a narrow minded view of rugby league but don’t get me wrong – I’ll support Leeds Rhinos through the good times and bad times. But I’ll also have my opinion.

Based on what out of interest?

I think that is spot on.

How dare you suggest that the players who were better than their opposition counterparts 2007-2009 might not actually be as good as they once were?

Leeds have the 4th/5th best playing squad in SL. Funnily enough, that's roughly where they're going to finish.

My instinct is to say 'what tosh' but lets run with this a little;

FB - Webb. Clearly he isnt the player he was. His defence is suspect at times and his positional sense can be questioned. However, coming forward he is a force. Is he only the 4th/5th best FB in SL? I think he is still a little higher than that.

Wings - Hall/BJB. Personally I think Hall is the best British winger around, or at least one of the top two. BJB is young and learning still but he is quick, direct but also reads the game quite well. He's not international class yet, but it wont be long.

Centres - Watkins/Ablett. Here we are below par with the top four. Watkins is very talented and much like BJB has the potential to be a top top class star. He just isnt there yet. Ablett, well Ive made my view on him on another thread. He tries so hard, but he is not top class. Though, a full off season training at centre and a full season next year and who knows. But right now, this is an area where we are prob the weakest we have been for a while.

Stand Off - Mags. On his day he is one of the best in SL. This season he has been poor, but then he missed a lot of the early season. ON paper top two for me. On form, mid table (Ive not counted Sinny in here as its not his ntural position)

Scrum Half - Burrow. Not unlike Mags really. On his day he prob claims an international place. Form this season hasn't been good enough but he is turning some of that around. 4th/5th is prob about right overall.

Props - JP/Kylie/Bailey/Kirke. The first three as a group are good enough for any SL side. Kirke is the weak link. Taking into account Kirke I would say that as a group we have a set of props that are about 3rd in the competition.

Hooker - Bud. For me, the best in SL. Still one of the best in the world.

Second Row - JJB/Clarkson/Delaney/Weller/Ali. A lot depends on which two you choose to play but again, looking at them as a group they must rank very highly. Lots of pace, power and soft hands. Maybe not the best group in SL but again, must be in the top three.

13 - Sinny. Is there anyone better in SL? Must surely make the top two in SL even on an average day.

Squad Players - McShane/Smith/Hardaker/Pitts/Ambler/Amor. The rest of the squad is young and therefore does lack experience. That said there is some talent there. 4th/5th Id agree with for this bunch right now.

This is all of course personal opinion but I have our squad down as on paper a good 3rd and pushing the top two.

I like to live my life on the edge.

What can I say? Other than that I personally don't mind this lull in Leeds form. It gives you a chance to readjust your expectations.

The crux of the matter I suppose is that I can forgive anyone on the pitch in Leeds colours for just not being good enough if they try their best. I, and many older posters on here have been subjected to a diet of Rugby League played by people who are good enough, who are more than good enough, who aren't just top class, but world class, who just cannot be chewed. Watching your side get beaten when they are good enough to win, who just can't be chewed is a vile experience.
Do I feel MORE of a Leeds fan because I want to get behind my team, to try and be that 14th man, to lift them maybe because they actually need it? Yes I do. The team 2007-09, they didn't need me. They were awesome, won games without coming out of second gear at times, sometimes didn't try too hard. A worrying habit for the old timers.

For all their shortcomings, this current crop of players, the older 2007-09 players, and the new recruits and developers, they are tryers. Lions led by Lambs? That remains to be seen.

But I actually like the thrill of matchday more now that I know that the players have to play their socks off to guarantee victory. Because one slip and it's a big fat L in next weeks programme.

Excellent post. End of deliberations here as far as I'm concerned

Except for two minor details.

1. The poster probably has zero hours flying time in the Captains seat of a top flight club. So really has no clue what they're talking about.

2. The poster probably has zero hours flying time as the CEO of a multi million pound sports leisure and hospitality business. So really has no clue what they're talking about.

Your support doesn't do much for it's credibility either.

No - get rid now McMuppett back to his finest today.

coach and a big player clear out too.start again with a new team building regime

Trouble is we have already retained too many has beens and players not to the required standard to make an impact for next season.

Very strong support for this statement after yesterdays drive to London and back.

Whaaaaat?

I'd say he made a very good post and I agree with it 100%. I couldn't give a "flying" one how much time he has spent as captain or CEO of a club.

I'll cut BM slack for that loss against Quins - chalk that 100% to the attitude of the players. If they were going to play soft they should have asked BM not to play them. To be fair to him, he was undoubtedly trying to balance the requirement of not losing players through injury (how many times are players injured when playing soft though, you'd think they'd learn FFS) and keeping some momentum for next week.

As it is, the players undoubtedly made the right noises to BM about what they'd do against Quins, then simply didn't turn up on the day. That's not BM's fault - if he'd known they'd do that he would have been better served picking the Academy side and avoiding any injury risk altogether.

I don't think he's a good coach, but if we turn up at Wembley next week and win (unlikely) or lose narrowly, we need to be asking more from these guys every week. If we get hammered then its time to ask hard questions about the coaching and quality of the players.

BM may not be the only casualty if we get flogged publicly again.