obviously being over here right now I've not seen anything from these games and going by reports I don't think our team would have won.However I am proud in the knowledge that in those WCC games we always gave a good account of ourselves,it was as if this game meant a lot and the team prepared very well and it did affect our immediate SL performances after the game. Apart from the Manly game I T thought we were very unlucky against Melbourne Storm at ER

Don't think there was any lack of desire or under-preparedness about any of the English efforts and all three sides may well suffer in similar fashion to how we did. I wouldn't say any of our three was unlucky this weekend with the wire and wigan scorelines flattering the English sides (though special mention to wigan for an especially-heroic effort). I thought the Australian sides were better-prepared than some I've seen in WCCs, or maybe their overall standard has just lifted another notch.
Fact is, the games were played in wintry conditions on pitches that were a throwback to the muddy 1970s, in England, and our lot still struggled. We've a way to go.

I've said the exact same thing to a colleague this morning. We see it every time a team from here plays a team from there. Their passes are crisp and the runners hit better angles. Take our own McGuire. He's been a top half back for over 10 years, and yet his passing at times is shocking. But it seems the norm over here.

Because it's enough to get by, and there isn't someone with an infinitely better passing game nipping at his heels.

Arguably, the likes of Burrow for example are still playing the same game with the same flaws they had ten years ago. It's this player stagnation and the lack of challenges that holds the game back over here.

Russel Crowe's South Sydney have really come on since we played a bit of a game against them in FLA a few years ago

Last season provided us with the worst winners in the history of SL. The result against Souths was entirely predictable.
Simple fact is a crap team won the lowest quality competition we've had in some time.

No mystery.

Depressingly correct .

That stagnation of players starts with the clubs rather than just the players. Take Leeds as an example, under McDermotts reign, he has continually picked his teams NOT on form, but on reputation. Therefore what is the incentive for the player with the reputation to improve his game?

All clubs should pick teams on form and ensure their players are working to the top of their game more consistently.

Not sure if it can be said a salary cap aids this or not.

Might have to agree to disagree here, but the stagnation of players starts and ends with the player IMO.

The "incentive" for the player to continually improve their game should be simple professional pride and what they can contribute to the team if they get better. Also if they're not happy at their current club, surely becoming a better player helps them to get a move elsewhere, whether that's another SL club, NRL or Union.

I'll give you Jamie Foster as an example. With work on the defensive side of his game, Jamie Foster has enough skill to be playing in SL. Instead, he's playing in some tinpot Union side in Hull and tweeting pictures of his brand new flash Mercedes. Did he want to do the hard work it would have taken to make a success of his rugby league career? On the face of it, doesn't look that way.

Think Andy has a great point.

As soon as Ryan Atkins and Leroy Cudjoe got their hands on an England shirt their progression stopped. Think they're both in reverse currently as well.

But if a player isn't unhappy at their current club, again where is the incentive to get better if they are already picked each week regardless?

I don't disagree with you on professional pride. But if clubs are picking sides regardless of form, I don't see the kick for the players to improve.

Pick on form and I am sure you will see a different ethic from players.

The entire problem, be it players not pushing themselves enough or clubs continuing to pick players regardless of form, comes from a lack of competition.

If there was another member of the squad of sufficient quality to step in when a top player loses form then the club would be more likely to make the change and the player would be more likely to push himself to improve.

Unfortunately, most squad players in SL aren't of good enough quality to provide this competition. They're there to cover injuries not push a first 13 player out of his place.

I'm on the Ryan Atkins diet. Whatever you eat, you put weight on because you can't pass anything.

Atkins is the definition of the term "Flat Track Bully"

Great when your on top.
Rubbish when you need him to step up.

The difference between Atkins and a top class is the letter 'W'.