In my opinion he is amongst the best in the world. Whether on a given day someone may be better than him is irrelevant. Hall is a big, fast, strong exciting player. He can make a claim to be the best winger in world rugby in my opinion. If others want to argue so what, its not like we are trying to discourage discussion.

Unfortunately attitudes like that of "Gotcha" seem to prevail within RL, the old "If you've never heard of us its your problem, its not our job to sell ourselves to you" would never work in any sort of commercial organisation that has to stand on its own two feet and not rely on one huge sponsorship deal to pay the overheads every year.

Exactly in your opinion. It is completely subjective. In a lot of other peoples opinion also it might be the same. So for Leeds fans to call him the WBW and the club to label that on the basis of their fans is quite correct.

For the RFL to declare he is the WBW of either code is something completely different. There is a lot of people in League who would dispute that claim, but union certainly would, with players like George North around. The claim would be laughed at.

Same goes for your claim of Tomkins "worlds best broken field runner". It's debatable whether he is as good as the player he is going to be competing with at New Zealand Warriors next season, but yet you want the RFL to claim he is the best in either code.

All that happens is ending up with egg on face.

By all means, promote our players, that I don't dissagree with you on, but don't make silly claims that can easily be questioned. For example, "most exciting player" is much easier to claim, as a few mazy runs here and there can easily back up your claim. Take your Ryan Hall example, if you said "best finisher in rugby Leage" again very hard to be proved wrong on that.

No it wouldn’t. Some would argue George North is better than Ryan Hall, some would argue (me included) the opposite. Union aren’t going to laugh at the thought of Ryan Hall being better than George North, the RFU would love to have Hall playing for England.

And even if they did, so fsking what? What does it matter if Union don’t rate Hall? If they don’t they are wrong, and when they ask for evidence we can show them some of the fantastic, exciting strength and skill Hall has shown to score tries.

We aren’t in awe of Union and don’t need their permission to big up our players. If we only make claims which can objectively be proven or are that minimal as to be unarguable, then that isn’t going to excite anyone.

Do you think Union are going to wait for our permission before proclaiming George North to be a superstar? Or are they going to go get him fannying about with a helicopter, or talking about his 40m speed?

Do you really think that anyone not familiar with the game is going to be excited in anyway shape or form by us bigging up our best 3/4er by saying he is a pretty good finisher? Or how Tomkins is a pretty good broken field runner but he might not be quite as good as a fair few others? What the hell kind of marketing is that?

Its not about being right or wrong, its about starting the discussion. Its about saying our game is played by world class athletes the equal of any in the world, its about pushing our best as the best. Its not about being the NRL’s bitch, nor is it about being fearful of Union and that they may disagree. For Christs sake man, who is going to watch a sport where the people who are selling it cant even proclaim their players as anything better than 2nd best? Its like Coca-cola running adverts saying ‘some people like pepsi better, but give us try you might like us, we use possibly inferior ingredients but at least we aren’t making outrageous claims’

Besides, the most obvious problem with your argument is if it’s a subjective opinion, how can we be proven wrong? How can we end up with egg on our face?

I have just emailed the Rugby League to ask why they have not promoted our sport by declaring Ian Kirke the best rugby forward in either code in the world.

Hope that helps Smokey.

Best email Phil Daly as well

did they tell you it was ok, they had no need to because they were already planning their 'Ryan hall is ok, if you want to come watch him. He isn't great but it's something to do. If you aren't busy or have plans. And there isn't a better union player you can go watch. If you really want to watch good players just get a premier sports subscription, but if you are at a loose end and fancy dome rugby Ryan Hall is good at putting balls on the floor' campaign. They are expecting it to be a real crowd puller

No, they said don't be stupid Ian kirke, he's cr@p.

i of course proceeded to explain your argument, to which they explained that the RFL can not be seen to be pushing the interests of one player over any other. They further explained that measuring any player in terms of best is usually by way of voting by their peers or the media, who will proclaim this on their behalf. Then stated that if a measurement can be shown on any player they will of course be prepared to back that event, giving examples of Fastest player, Most try's scored, and top tackler.

i said, "shucks Smokey will be dissapointed".

Just saying like.

Missed all the recent Lions and Autumn international coverage then? Anyone would think Dan Carter was the second coming of Christ. Sky extended their match coverage to include (in an empty Twikkers) a 15 minute monlogue about how great he was by another "rugby god" Richie McCaw. That's exactly what hey do with rugby union players.
The Lions tours are now a huge commercial enterprise - look at the performance of "unveiling the squad", totally over the top - but high drama nontheless. It wasn't too many years ago that a Lions tour was something a few did and was supported by the ex-pat community, look at it now. There were more Lions fans than Aussies in the stadia for pretty much every game over the summer. I was even thinking of going to NZ myself in 4 years.

The "here it is, watch it if you want" approach is a blueprint for failure.

And i would ask what relevance is that to back up Smokey's argument? I don't dissagree that would be great. The difference is that is the media doing it, not the Rugby Football Union. And as I said in the post above when the players peers and the media are saying something fine.

But the Rugby Football Union wouldn't proclaim any player better than any other it's self.

Can you imagine Ryan Hall going for a new contract next year. In his discussions his agent says he want's image rights to be included as Ryan Hall is the best winger in the world. Two weeks later at final discussions, his club turns round and says "hang on a minute you said you were best winger in the world, and we do think you are, but the RFL have just announced that P1key Josh Charnley as best in the world, and it's backed up by the millions and millions of Wigan fans". How do you thinks Halls contract negotiations would go then?

The broncos venture has failed, it was worth a punt but its time to call a halt to the professional game in London .
The amateur game in London should still be supported, and similar to other scribes on this site I believe we should do more to support the game in its natural heartland .

Are you sure it was the RFL you were speaking to and not someone you mistook for the RFL?

Because I'm pretty sure if you explained what I said their first question would be 'well what are you banging on about Ian Kirke for then? We are already trying to do that with Tomkins and Burgess we just aren't all that good at it'

Were you under the impression that 'the greatest game' or 'super league of the extraordinary' are proven empirical, objective claims about the game?

I tried that, and they must read these boards, as you don't want to know what they said.

Of course, don't take offence though, as their opinion is purely subjective.

I think such a claim would be treated with the same respect as if Kevin sinfield turned up at bucks palace tonight proclaiming to be a knight of the realm and demanded a bed for the knight.

You do realise that there is an actual award given out by the rlif for the best winger in the world don't you? And you do realise who currently holds that don't you?

And yet they took your call? Wonders never cease