FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Best XVII for next year |
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| Good and fair point El ,D i personally would use Ward and Sutcliffe as 6 + 13 respectivley with Burrow at 7.
Alternatively Sinfield stays at 6 and Sutty goes to 7 with Ward staying at 13 and Mags on the bench unless he returns bang in form then Sutcliffe/Ward move to the bench with the other at 13.
Its a problem the Coach has to solve because imo its clear that Sutty/Ward are the future at 13 and 6 so he has to fit Sinfield ,Burrow and Mcguire round them in the next 12/18mths imo.
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| Quote: El Diablo "McGuire isn't as quick as he used to be, but he's our most creative half when he's fit.
The big questions are, can Sutcliffe and Ward deliver when given responsibility for running the attack? And crucially can they do it yet? Neither has had any spell at all as the key man in an attacking structure at senior level. So having them both as a halfback pairing seems a risky ploy. Patience is a virtue.'"
We wont know unless we give them the chance
At this stage its not so much about them delivering as developing.
They need game time now in order to develop and we need to have the patience to allow them to develop all aspects of their game.
They wont get this sat in the stand watching players who are, due to injury and the inevitable wear and tear on their bodies, now frankly past their best.
Its a sad aspect but it comes to all players eventually.
We have had great success over the past few years and I am truely grateful to McGuire in particular but the a large proportion of the current team is ageing all together and unless we develop the best of our available young talent we will not repeat our recent glories.
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Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
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| Quote: rhinoms "Good and fair point El ,D i personally would use Ward and Sutcliffe as 6 + 13 respectivley with Burrow at 7.
Alternatively Sinfield stays at 6 and Sutty goes to 7 with Ward staying at 13 and Mags on the bench unless he returns bang in form then Sutcliffe/Ward move to the bench with the other at 13.
Its a problem the Coach has to solve because imo its clear that Sutty/Ward are the future at 13 and 6 so he has to fit Sinfield ,Burrow and Mcguire round them in the next 12/18mths imo.'"
I agree entirely. I suspect there may remain a problem to solve at 7, but perhaps it will be 12 to 18 months before we know that.
In some ways (many ways) having so many otions is great. Managing that transition from the golden generation to the new talent is going to be a tricky balancing act that I don't envy the coaching staff in the meantime though.
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| Id like to see Sutcliffe and Ward share the 13 role next year. Would physically and mentally take some of the pressure from them, would bring them through in to a settled side and would, when circumstances allow, mean we could have both on the field taking a more leadership role. But it would mean they were still getting regular RL in an important position.
Mcguire and Sinfield in the halves, Burrow at 9. Ward/Sutcliffe at 13. If we are looking comfortable then we can rest one of Mcguire/Sinfield and move Sutcliffe in to the halves with Ward at 13
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Apr 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote: El Diablo " Managing that transition from the golden generation to the new talent is going to be a tricky balancing act that I don't envy the coaching staff in the meantime though.'"
Its something the coaching staff should relish and seize with glee.
Their remit is not only to win trophies but to develop the future of the team and that means making some tough decisions at times.
I agree the problem is fitting all the available choices onto the team sheet and we may have to sacrifice at least one of the more "seasoned" players to accommodate the new talent.
I know which one it would be for me but thats just a personal opinion.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Id like to see Sutcliffe and Ward share the 13 role next year. Would physically and mentally take some of the pressure from them, would bring them through in to a settled side and would, when circumstances allow, mean we could have both on the field taking a more leadership role. But it would mean they were still getting regular RL in an important position. '"
Sorry but that is just taking us backwards. When Ward broke into the team, he was an ever present, going on to win a GF winners ring, and looked very settled, better than some of his collegues. He started off last season like an house on fire, looking every inch our best option around the base of the scrum. had he not got injured, it was more than just a probability that his spot was cemented in that backrow/loose.
He's a much better option than JJB/Clarkson, and is more reliable to be there playing than Delaney.
Now just because of his age, it would seem, you want to start reducing his game time. Ward is not in the same boat as Sutcliffe, as Sutcliffe is indeed in the still learning phase, but Ward is past that early stage and is more in the getting wiser stage.
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| I remain unconvinced that Ward is going to be best used as a pivot in the short/medium term.
I get that there are concerns over his durability and asking him to work as a "battering ram", but from what I see of him at first grade level he's much more effective as a runner than a distributor.
If one of Ward or Sutcliffe is going to slot into that role then IMO it's going to be Sutcliffe.
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| Quote: Gotcha "Sorry but that is just taking us backwards. When Ward broke into the team, he was an ever present, going on to win a GF winners ring, and looked very settled, better than some of his collegues. He started off last season like an house on fire, looking every inch our best option around the base of the scrum. had he not got injured, it was more than just a probability that his spot was cemented in that backrow/loose.
He's a much better option than JJB/Clarkson, and is more reliable to be there playing than Delaney.
Now just because of his age, it would seem, you want to start reducing his game time. Ward is not in the same boat as Sutcliffe, as Sutcliffe is indeed in the still learning phase, but Ward is past that early stage and is more in the getting wiser stage.'"
I find myself agreeing with you with unusual regularity this week. I would be nervous of both Ward and Sutcliffe being the team's main pivots on a regular basis. But I think I would like to see Ward handed more responsibility. Then I don't think another learning season would be bad for Sutcliffe - some rotation time at 6 or 13, maybe used as centre cover in the event of injuries. A couple of months on loan at London or somewhere if they wanted him as a 6 or 13 at top level would not upset me.
If Ward is fit, he should be ready. He was the most exciting academy player I've seen in a fair while. Throw the lad the ball a bit more and let's see what he can do. Do it now while he can have a couple of the old guard alongside him when he has the odd off day - which he will have at his age.
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| Quote: Gotcha "Sorry but that is just taking us backwards. When Ward broke into the team, he was an ever present, going on to win a GF winners ring, and looked very settled, better than some of his collegues. He started off last season like an house on fire, looking every inch our best option around the base of the scrum. had he not got injured, it was more than just a probability that his spot was cemented in that backrow/loose.
He's a much better option than JJB/Clarkson, and is more reliable to be there playing than Delaney.
Now just because of his age, it would seem, you want to start reducing his game time. Ward is not in the same boat as Sutcliffe, as Sutcliffe is indeed in the still learning phase, but Ward is past that early stage and is more in the getting wiser stage.'"
Because physically he has proven unable to withstand it. Ward and Sutcliffe are very very young, physically they need protecting.
Having them share the role means they can be rested, can be interchanged, but also when circumstances allow have both on the field at the same time with ward at 13 and Sutcliffe at 6.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Because physically he has proven unable to withstand it. Ward and Sutcliffe are very very young, physically they need protecting.
Having them share the role means they can be rested, can be interchanged, but also when circumstances allow have both on the field at the same time with ward at 13 and Sutcliffe at 6.'"
Delaney has proven unable to withstand it, going by your theory. Should he be only part time aswell?
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| Delany is in the prime of his career. If his body can’t withstand it now he never will. His body has stopped growing, Sutcliffe and Ward aren’t in that position putting too much on their shoulders (in wards case literally) now could ruin their career before it starts.
I think if Ward gets 20 games and Sutcliffe 10-15 this year, and if they are playing 40-50mins instead of 60-70mins per game most of the time then their development wont be harmed and they wont be over-worked.
What we also need to take in to account is the training in and around first grade games. I would rather Ward and Sutcliffe missed a couple of the strength and conditions sessions needed for first team for a few more skills sessions at this stage. If that means they play a few games less im not all that upset about it.
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| I sem to recall McGuire and Burrow droppinmg straight into the team at a very young age...without the need for all this nuturing.
When we had the barrage of injuries early in the seadon these young player stepped up and showed what thay can do.
Now is the time for them to get some sustained game time.
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| Burrow played from the bench in short spells. McGuire played 4 matches in his first season 13 in his 2nd, and 29 in his third.
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| Quote: DoubleAone "I sem to recall McGuire and Burrow droppinmg straight into the team at a very young age...without the need for all this nuturing.
When we had the barrage of injuries early in the seadon these young player stepped up and showed what thay can do.
Now is the time for them to get some sustained game time.'"
Neither were asked to carry the ball into contact and defend in the middle of the field. What they were doing at a young age and the sort of role expected of Ward are worlds apart.
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "Neither were asked to carry the ball into contact and defend in the middle of the field. What they were doing at a young age and the sort of role expected of Ward are worlds apart.'"
Correct.
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