..but neither Achurch or Vickery would have needed visas regardless of SL rules. In the case of Vickery at least, if he didn't have a Beritish passport he almost certainly wouldn't have got a visa. Achurch would probably have struggled too.

I'd also take issue with the suggestion that certain forwards wouldn't get into the Storm side. One thing they have shown for years under Bellamy is that they play to a structure so well understood that any number of unknown forwards have shone for them. This is highlighted by the fact that most that have left have been nothing like as good for other clubs.

Also, when discussing the quality of Leeds' recent recruits (which I have criticised myself in the past), have a look round SL. Its hardly brimming with first rate overseas players.

Not only are Jones-Buchanan and Achurch being used as part-time props but it's also telling when Hemmings makes an observation like 'Clarksons been quiet tonight' or words to that effect.

Not sure what Hemmings was expecting to see from him sat on the bench for the opening seventy.

Too early to write Achurch off just yet but Vickery already looks like this year's Michael Coady - although both look better than Omari Caro.

Let's not forget though that this is the greatest Leeds squad the CEO has ever assembled according to the ........ eh CEO.

Maybe on the wing, but as Keinhorst is the better pick as he looks to give the ball more out wide and his defence is aggressive, more suited to a .....I would think Leeds have more to gain from getting keinhorst game time at with his 3yr deal versus Vickery on the wing on a 1yr deal. I would like to see Chisolm given a shot on the wing also

Is it that far behind the ultimately trophy-less 2010 greatest ever Leeds squad according to.........eh you?

IMO Achurch looks to have potential but will be better suited to the back row. I also like the look of Vickery. I understand both have impressed the coaches with their attitude and training which is also a big factor in the selection process.

Do you have the quote ?

I don't but IIRC it went something like 'greatest Leeds squad on paper since 2004.'

I'll stand by that and say now the Leeds 2013 squad isn't as good on paper as either of those.

Not even convinced it's as good as last years, if you recall, that's the one the CEO was legitimately asking 'had it run it's course' in June 2012.

I think we probably all know my view by now - having regularly performed this pantomime routine - not so sure whether you've got an opinion on the relative squad strengths or at least one you're prepared to share?

Agree regarding attitude etc being a big factor. Achurch hasn't set the world on fire but as stated it a big SR. with a offload game playing prop. He doesn't look at the races at the moment but can see the potential.
From what I have seen of vickery he seems ok but yet to be convinced of this signing.

Shouldn't possessing a good attitude and a willingness to train hard be an absolute given for someone like Vickery with either little or no 1st grade experience rocking up to the home of the Champions looking for an opportunity ?

Good attitude and hard work are fine but it still has to be supplemented by talent to make an impact. No size, no pace, no power so yet to understand what Vickery can offer beyond a good training ethic.

No size, no pace, no power?

You didn't see the Boxing Day game, did you tvoc? In fact, exactly how much have you seen of Vickery in the flesh? Somewhere not far off "none at all" I'll wager?

I wouldn't be writing him off just yet, the physical attributes are there and at least unlike Chisholm, he can catch.

You're correct, I have no interest in out of season meaningless friendlies as a reference point.

I've seen every minute that Vickery has played so far at 1st grade level and I'm waiting to see what he has to offer. As a modern day winger he's neither big, elusive or fast. His fielding of the early Melbourne kick was hesitant and laboured turning a possible kick return into a drop-out.

I can't (and don't) comment on players before I've seen them play first grade so I have no opinion to offer re-Chisholm at this stage.

I shared my view in 2010. It's foolhardy, IMO, to label a squad as the best, the greatest or the worst before a ball is kicked or even until the meaningful games are played. It's premature and I haven't been premature since I was 16.

I'll happily critique players abilities and performances as the season goes on and I'll happily bestow greatness upon players when it's been earned on the pitch rather than on paper.

Vickery didn't let anybody down against the Storm, which is not a bad effort in his second full game. Had he been particularly poor in defence, Cronk and Smith would have targeted him all night and we'd all be talking about what a disaster he is.

I don't know why anyone would expect much more from a reserve player. Which is what he'll be if and when everybody's fit.

Was it foolhardy to rate the chances of all fourteen SL clubs before a ball was kicked in 2012 ?

Judging by the final table perhaps that should be a yes in your case. Is that really I'll happily critique players abilities and performances as the season goes on and I'll happily bestow greatness upon players when it's been earned on the pitch rather than on paper.'"

I suppose you would have to say the difference between your "2010 greatest" but trophy-less squad and the subsequent less-great-in-your-opinion, but historic trophy winning ones, is a decent coach!

He also didnt really get much ball in hand, the only real chance he had was the Mcguire pass that went out, I havent seen a replay to determine whether it was a poor pass or he over ran it.