Quite. Had Child not butchered the forward pass decision for Webb's "no try" we may have pinched that game which would have been a travesty because Hull were far the better team.

We seemed intent for the first hour to throw the ball around without anyone showing a willingness to go forward and make the hard yards. Thier forwards certainly played better and their game plan was far superior.

For our 10 minute spell of dominance in the 2nd half it came because our forwards started going forwards. Too often this team wants to run before it walks.

We will improve significantly when Burrow is thrown into the mix but I do worry about our direction these last 18 months. We're too reliant on individual brilliance too often rather consistently playing well to a structured game plan.

Gareth - how many games have our forwards - particularly the props been dominated by their opposite numbers? Leeds have no option but to throw it around due to the lack of momentum up the middle. Griffin and Moore look poor at best, Peacock and Kylie are well passed it and Bailey is a much better defender than he is an attacker. It says much when Kirke was as good as any of them last night.

The back row doesn't have the punch of a Wigan or Warrington. JJB had limited impact last night - understandable given his lay off - Clarkson is a defensive send row and Delaney is a bit lightweight.

The backs are not functioning correctly - once again Hall failed to get one pass from his centre, this is problem that has needed addressing for sometime. Hardaker blew one simple chance in the first half when a quick pass to Hall would have given him a walk in. How many times is BJB going to get tackled into touch when Leeds have momentum early in the tackle count?

The half backs look predictable and the plays now look slow and ponderous compared to the better sides in the comp. I would be inclined to give Ward an extended run, the attack needs freshening up and some new ideas. Put Sinfield back to 13 and reduce his necessity to dictate every single attacking play.

Oh dear.

I have read the op and decided it wasn't worth reading on but I'll add my 2d's worth anyway.

For people who actually know the game they will have seen we were far from poor last night. Yes, there were a couple of massive defensive lapses (JJB ball watching and JP deciding not to make a tackle) but Hull played the best I have seen them play for a hell of a long time and I enjoyed the game from start to finish. We didn't lack effort, in fact, we put 100% in IMHO. You can't win them all but Hull would have beaten most teams last night. They were fired up and thier forwards came out on top. I've seen a lot of Leeds fans moaning on Facebook but I'll say the same here as what I said to a few of them on there. Leeds didn't play because Hull didn't let us! It was nothing to do with how we "didn't turn up" because we did.

What last night has done though for me is added a 7th team to my 6 that could win it. This is turning out to be a good SL season in the top half. Yes, the quality is dire in the bottom but whenever the top 6 teams (now 7) play each other, the games are great to watch and no one can call a winner before hand. Oh, and I'm not saying Hull will win the SL, far from it. I'm saying last night they raised their intensity and beat a good SL team. If they build on that throughout the season they will have a shot, but IMO this is the hardest one to call of all time.

One thing is for sure though!.. I can't wait fur this years play off series!!

Disappointing performance overall. Harrigan is right we did put in the effort, but only when we realised we were in a contest. I'm not saying that we went there expecting to win, but there were periods in the game where we were very low in intensity, particularly in defence.

The issue I have is this. Leeds have for years relied on individual brilliance, a point I made in a post match discussion with another poster. This is has been a successful tactic because we have had some of the best British players of their generation all playing together at the same time. We could usually rely on one of them to do "the impossible", Burrow in the GF last year is a good example. This, combined with the fact that we could play a full team of kids and still finish in the playoffs due to the lack of quality in the lower half of SL, means we can coast through a season and then "turn it on" for the play offs. The other poster I mentioned above made a good point about SL being like a horse race, it only matters where you finish, not where you are during the race.

I'd like us to move Sinfield back to 13, and get him defending back in the middle again where he has some of the bigger guys to help him out. His defensive positioning in the centres is questionable. That would release Burrow back to 7 where he is more effective, and McGuire to Stand off where he isn't responsible for bringing the forwards through (something he's not terribly good at).

As Sal says, our pack looks old and tired at the moment, and although this may change later in the year, it's a bad sign. We need young fresh blood in the engine room over the next couple of years.

The biggest problem I have is our lack of structure and technique in so many areas. We don't hold the ball well in attack (remember Smith having to teach the players how to hold the ball?) nor do we have good technique in collision (McDermott mentions this in his post match interviews), meaning we don't physically dominate the speed of play. Sal also mentioned the number of times BJB goes into touch, and Hardaker's lack of vision for his winger, but hopefully this will improve with more experience in the Centres.

In terms of positives, we have a whole host of good young kids who will improve over the next few years if they receive the right coaching and mentoring, so we shouldn't be slitting our wrists after last night. We will be in the mix at the end of the season again, partly because of the quality we have, partly because of the experience (no one knows how to win a big game better than this collection of players) and partly because there aren't enough quality teams to mean we won't get a shout at it again.

I think we have the basic ingredients to go well this year again, but we need some pretty big improvements in a number of areas to win any of the remaining trophies. I don't see us winning it from 5th again this time round, but would probably have said that last year too.

What do I know........

Best team won last night but I have no real concerns about our ability to win the games that count. That is not being arrogant or saying we will win SL or the CC but these players have proved time and again they can perform in the playoffs.
We heard much the same last season. The pack were finished, Sinny wasn't a standoff etc. When we have a full squad we are a match for anyone. Hooker was a concern but the arrival of Lunt has helped address that and defeat to a good Hull side should not detract from the fact we are still in a decent position to finish in the top four.
It is about getting the team to peak at the required points of the season and we are still well capable of doing that.

Thought this thread was about your away support

ROFLROFLROFL

Harrigan makes some good points. Hull were rested and really up to beat the Champs and they deserved their win and would have beaten most sides on last nights form. Their forwards were outstanding and they passed the ball well with few errors.

Leeds were not at their best and missed the spark and pace of Burrow. Both our half backs failed to provide any real attacking direction and our kicking game was poor. Yet despite that we could have won the game had the Web try not been dissallowed as this could have given us the momentum that we lacked for most of the match.

I thought JP and Delaney were good overall with Kirke making some important tackles in a good stint. Considering his layoff JJB did ok as his defensive mistake is unlikley to be repeated when he gets back to full match fitness. Griffin has started to look a bit off the pace and Lunt gave his least effective performance and Sinfield looks as though he could do with a rest. IMO Smith brought some impact off the bench and was unlucky not to have assisted in a game changing try.

With Burrow, Watkins and Hauraki set to return we should soon be back on track.

Not a bit worrying that Wigan beat them away from home 2 weeks ago 12 - 56???

Just for a bit of perspective, we had 7 u'20s playing in that game.

The make up of last night's team showed 6/7 returning first team players compared to the match against Wigan.

I think you have to look at the league over all.

There are currently 5 points seperating the top 6 teams and if you win your extra game against Wakey you too will be in that mix. If Catalan win their game against Hull then there will be 3 teams tied at the top on 20 points.

It's a tighter league. What you have to ask is are you in the mix. When you look at the teams above you have you beaten any of them this year. If you have then you are well and truely in the mix if not then you may have a few concerns for the playoffs.

If I look at my own team Saints, we've had our worse start in years, yet we are 5 points from Wigan.
When we look above and the games we played we lost to
Hull, Huddersfield, Wigan, Catalan, but they were not blow out scores.
Hull had the biggest margin but there was a score once the game was past us so it was a 6 pointer really
Huddersfield was a 1 point game
Catalan last minute try
Wigan well I did not see that one, but again it was not miles apart and we lost a halfback early on
We beat Wire at their place and we have beaten Leeds at ours.

All in all it could have been alot worse, it could have been alot better but it's still well within our own hands to make progress upwards as it is for Leeds. All the teams above will have to play each other again and so will take point of each other, which is why Hull went from 2nd to 5th in a matter of weeks. Also bar Hull we all have an interest in the cup still, so one eye will be elsewhere, with only limited trophies to win this is going to take a priority at the moment, just look at Warrington dropping briers against salford (and they could come undone there).

It's a tight season and no set of fans will be completely satisfied, so hopefully the playoffs will be less onesided this year.

I have to be honest, for all your arrogance in the pre match threads, you have been pretty graceful in defeat

Our arrogance has been earned TBF. I never mind anyone being arrogant if they have backed it up on the field, which we have over the last 7 years. Just like I dont mind Saints fans because although they havent won anything for a while, they have been there or there abouts. Its the Wire fans that annoy me. You'd think they have won everything for the last 5 years the way they go on But at the same time, Leeds fans are knowledgeable in general and we dont mind defeat, especially when a team plays as well as Hull did last night to beat us.