i'm not yet convinced by cameron but to be fair he needs time. he inherited a mess.however there was no real alternative which the vote showed. nobody knew who not to vote for

I haven't made any assertions that this wasn't a crisis driven by completely irresponsible and thoroughly greedy bankers, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to remind me of something I already know.

For the record, it's appauling that the vulnerable in society will be under more pressure now than they were previously. They need support, not criticism, however they also need to help themselves too wherever possible.

Given the perilous financial state we are in at the moment, do you think it would be wise for us to see mass strikes and walkouts? That's what you seem to be advocating to me?

A more pertinent question might be...

Given the perilous financial state we are in at the moment, do you think it would be wise for us to bail out the latest crisis of capitalism just so that the bankers and the financial spivs can do it all over again? That's what you seem to be advocating to me.

What is your problem with people having the freedom and the right to withdraw their labour anyhow?

You are right it would be a pertinent question, however what are the realistic alternatives? Without every country having the same approach to the financial spivs (as you lovingly call them) such that they don't just bail out of Britain at the first opportunity, how exactly do you suggest we hold them to task over their ridiculous behaviour? I don't like it any more than you do, but I don't see any realistic alternative that wouldn't have horrendous consequences for the country's economic prospects for recovery.

Oh and I don't have any issue with people having the freedom and right to withdraw their labour, I just don't think it would help at the moment.

I signed this petition outside an Asda in Castleford I think. I remember me and our lass driving towards Oulton and ending up somewhere near Cas eating at a Chinese buffet with a Asda over the road. I signed it 4 times using different names.

Rebellllll.

Gary at the previous election Labour said we would all get a vote on the EEC membership until it came to the crunch!! Anyone who takes the manifesto seriously needs a labotomy to see if there is anything inside their skull.

Labour did not want to cut public sector spending yet didn't have a strategy for boosting growth - as I said earlier hope is not a strategy.

I'm merely establishing exactly where you stand on these issues.

In your opinion...

1) We all get shafted by the financial spivs (appropriate terminology which appears to upset you for some reason?) who gamble away our money and our wealth, then bugger off with huge bonuses whilst not being held accountable for their actions so they can recharge their batteries and do it all over again.

2) There is no alternative - Thatcherite political philosophy in a nutshell.

3) Because there is no alternative, the most vulnerable in society must instead be held accountable and take austerity measures on the chin for the country (whatever that's supposed to mean) by not withdrawing their labour in dispute, or taking to the streets in protest in order to defend their communities, their rights and their livelihoods.

4) Capital has the freedom to withdraw and it will do so without a single care or thought for the consequences, yet you'd rather not see labour exercise the very same rights of freedom to withdraw itself in defence.

I believe that's a reasonable summary of your position.

I don't have the answers or the alternatives, however I'll always defend the rights and the freedoms of people to organise themselves in ways in which they deem fit in order to defend themselves against the latest capitalist onslaught... which rules me out of ever supporting any of the mainstream Labour, Tory or Lib Dem parties who... when push comes to shove... all sing from the same pro-capitalist hymn sheet.

Constructive as usual Keith, you don't have any answers, but are happy to look for an argument where one doesn't exist.

Keep knitting...

Oh and if you dislike capitalism so much, why do you live in a capitalist country?

Nice to see that you are quick to try to isolate the principles of others, whilst not having any yourself.

The only thing I've done is deconstruct all your alleged liberal posturings of concern to establish exactly where you stand.

That'll be on the side of capital then.

Feel free to get personal in response

This raises some very interesting points - having tried to organise labour in a unionised environment I can only say how difficult it is. Unite the union we deal with have seen all but one of the unionised sites in my firm close because they will not yield to what is required to generate a return.

In the end the firm will close the last site - the question that then needs to be asked is have the union done the best by its members? If the site closes the only people who will lose their jobs are the members not the union bosses - that is the tragedy.

An extreme example Scargill still believes the demise of a whole industry was worth the point of principle - the problem is he still had his income whilst all those who paid his wages were lemmings over the edge. What is really ironic is the lengths he is going to to protect his gratis flat in London - a typical socialist hypocrite

And so the scapegoats keep emerging whilst the real perpetrators of economic crises continue on and on...

Come on Duncan - you are asking the impossible, he would have consult Noam - another super-rich socialist.