I'll take Keith's bait.

Leeds haven't had a rivalry where the rival is defined solely by the identity of the opposition for more many decades, since Hunslet were last a great side really.

Keith's reference to historical relevance is of no relevance. Are rugby League games these days less important because the crowd isn't wearing flat caps or smoking pipes during the games? Did the games become less important during peace time because players didn't guest for several clubs as they did in war time. I have a revelation for Keith, time marches on and brings with it changes, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, sometimes for changes sake.

Leeds don't have the rivalry that Wigan/Saints or Hull/Hull KR do and it's simply because Leeds are the biggest club in the league. Nobody hates Hull as much as Hull KR fans, nobody hates Wigan as much as St Helens fans. However, everyone hates Leeds. Wakey, cas, Hull you name it. It's hard to pin down our main rivals because we're so much bigger and better and we have so many.

Like all rivalries the crowd and media interest increases depending upon the quality of the games and the quality of the teams. From 2001-2005 the Leeds Bulls derby was the biggest in the game because the Bulls were a dominant force and we were striving to get there. The games were hard, intense and excellent spectacles and the crowds were huge. Recently that has not been the case. But so what? That is no different to Wigan and St Helens. Wigan have only just become competitive again after some years of Saints dominance and, guess what, the interest in the game has increased. Shock horror.

That AP, sorry Keith, has managed to dupe so many of you into thinking he made a knowledgeable and reasoned post which was an obvious and clear dig at Stupor League and nothing more (same material he's been using for several years if you want some historical relevance) just shows that standards around here haven't improved and it's still like shooting fish in a barrel for him.

It's a good debate now that G1 has entered the fray and I agree with parts of both his and Keith's interesting posts.

Personally I've always wanted Leeds to beat Bradford more than the rest. Living pre Super League in Pudsey meant I was mixing and working with fans of both sides on a daily basis and because of that the regular meetings (generally) meant that bit more.

A big/decisive/knock out game against Hull, Wigan or Widnes was still a big game but so were the equivalents against Northern. Classic match ups in the Challenge Cup especially with comparitively huge (for the period) attendances spring to mind here .... whether crammed in to a rain soaked Headingley or stood freezing at the top of the Rooley Lane Terrace.

To me, beating Bradford is just another two points.

Don't get me wrong, I take great delight in spanking them, but only as much delight as I take in spanking anybody. What I think makes it so enjoyable is there always seems to be more hype surrounding the match, "This one is going to be a cracker! Both teams are well up for this! etc etc" Then we come out and spank them all over the pitch and it makes it sweeter (the recent 44-2 [can't remember the season? '08? '09?] case in point).

But again, that's because of the hype, not the fact it's Bradford.

Last year there was a clear example of that. The final match of the season vs. Hull, playing for 4th. The general consensus was Leeds were beaten and finishing 6th. According to the media you could take your pick from anything like... "Mood in the camp is low", "Bruised egos from Wembley", "Missing weight from the pack", "Away from home" blah blah blah. I remember Eddie had a whip round the studio and all three (Stevo, Clark & I think it was McRae?) all said Hull would have too much for us. When Radford got sent off you could audibly hear Stevo's panic and starting to back track on his predictions. Beating Hull that day was sweet, because the match was hyped.

Exactly the same thing happened the week after at Wigan (a match I'm now referring to as "Godgate"icon_wink.gif. Beating them was extra sweet because the match was so hyped up.

Famously, Leeds vs. Bradford has always been seriously hyped up (by both clubs & the RFL, hoping the locality will attract more bums on seats) and I think the reason people enjoy beating them so much is because of the hype. I do tend to agree with Keith that it's the media machine telling people what to think and which matches you should be more excited about that's making people think "It would be great to beat Bradford" much more than the actual fact that it's Bradford we're playing.

Means a good bit of banter with the bulls fan(s) on the way home on the 508 / 681/682.

Happy days

Beating Bradford is like beating Castleford.

Oh, the glory.

I have never really cared for beating Bradford that much (obviously in a rivalry sense, I actually want us to win every game no matter who we play). I may have bought into it a tad when I was a mid-teen but I've always wanted to beat Cas more, then i'd say Wigan followed by Saints.

I always remember the 1st big game I saw was against Cas and people were queueing on St Michaels lane to get in. Think there were 22k that day and that was in the times when we only averaged about 9/10k.

Then again fast forward a few years into the SL era and the joy I got from us beating Wigan at home in 1998 far outweighs any time we beat Bradford.

To me Bradford are just a team that shares our Western Boundary

I can remember the time - not so long ago, 2003 maybe? - when large numbers of posters on here engaged in collective apoplexy every time you played Bradford.

Because you usually lost.

And the cry was "will we ever beat Bradford again?"

And the more dumb of the Bulls fans said "no chance", whilst the wiser ones recognised the past is no guide to the future and planets move in their orbits and every dog (or bovine) has his day. And the wiser heads on here rightly said just the same, while the more excitable ones said "come the revolution..."

I suspect the answer to "What does it mean to you to beat the Bulls" then would have been rather different to the answer most of you are - fully understandably - giving now?

Same way as many Bulls fans back then would have answered "boring, we do it too often". Probably those "fans " we have not seen on the terraces in recent years?

Time passes, the power in the game moves to a new place - temporarily, as it always is - and perceptions change with it, I'd suggest?

Can't argue with that Adey tbf.

Astonishing ....a G1 post well worth reading.

Or maybe some of us just love AP, I mean KS's style ....

Albeit like the Millwall of the RL world, hated by many and loved by few, we're just used to every tinpot village pit team coming out and playing like it's their annual cup final because they hate / envy Leeds.

By the same token then, it winds me up when we get our own fans giving it stuff like "We should ease up on them, as they're only a small team" or "I don't like games where we run in a hatfull ..."

Me ? I love seeing other teams regardless of who they are and what their pedigree is, when we get chance, being driven in to the floor and steamrollered by a Leeds side. I love it when we run up a cricket score.

Me too admiral. After all they would do it to us given half a chance. Nowt better than putting up with the hate and vitrol on the walk to the ground only to see Leeds rip them a new one. I love it when Leeds are ruthless, loves it!!!

that is very true and the reason our crowds have declined slightly is because of the temporary decline of the bulls.I miss those rhino's-bull's full houses derby's

As a kid in the very late 70's and early 80's i had to do my schooling at 2 of Bradfords Catholic schools, which were subsequently full of Bradford fans, I was the only Leeds RL fan in the entire of both schools

The Monday mornings after Northern had beaten Leeds were a personal nightmare for me as they would all line up before school started and would all chant "Northern, Northern, Northern" etc etc

But when Leeds won, surprisingley these kids were all elsewhere on that monday morning

Due to these intimidating circumstances as a school kid, i always take great pleasure in defeating Bradford

The chase of catching the Bulls in the 2003/2004 seasons were very exciting times, I admit to shedding a tear at Old Trafford when we finally reached the Holy Grail of winning our first Grand Final and I have never jumped up and down at a game, whilst nearly weeing my pants in the process, as when Sinny went for the 2, but Jordan Tansey took the 4 instead

I long for the day that this fixture can again draw 20,000 plus crowds because RL needs this game and both these teams to be successful

I don't know any Bulls fans these days.

As part of my job I used to visit lots of workplaces in Bradford where you'd always see their supporters posters & calendars on walls etc, but now there is nothing, if HMRC had chosen Bradford Bulls as their test case for image rights then the whole of the rugby league would be totally fooked by now.

I did spend some time in an office last week with a Hull FC calendar on the wall but when questioned that person was actually more interested in getting hold of a ticket for the Leeds Carnegie/Leicester match.

I knew plenty of Bulls fans back in the glory days. Those same people regularly ask [ime[/i what the Bulls score was now.