My expectation is that Leeds will come into next season with more eagerness than ever and that we’ll win something. That challenge cup run until the final was pleasurable to see. Hopefully we can have it all season long rather than just for all the important games.

It’ll be Brian McLennan’s last year and this is probably the biggest challenge of his coaching career yet in getting a beaten side back on track. It should be exciting

My point was not just about the silverware but about being consistently in the finals and consistently delivering fast attractive rugby. But as you mention it - in the 14 years of SL Saints have been Grand Finalists 8 times and Champions 5 times against our 6 times finalists and 4 times champions. In the same period they have won the Cup 5 times and been losing finalist once against our one win and 3 loses in the Cup finals. So you would have to say they have a superior record over the full period of SL.

Our overall performances have also been very good and the recent ones brilliant - but Saints are there yet again finishing 2nd and in the GF whereas we have fallen behind. They have had their share of injuries but they still field a side full of ball players and they are playing a more attractive game than we are.

My point is that they have remained at the top with a consistent brand of rugby which is to be applauded. IMO despite our GF successes the quality of our rugby has declined over the last two years (when Ellis last played) and we have not adapted to changes in the PTB interpretations etc. I am not having a rant - just an observation

Yes it makes more sense for Delaney to move to the pack than Senior. He could become another McKenna who was much better in the pack. But we must get some pace back in the centres. Against Wigan when Sinfield scored he showed better centre play than Delaney has done all season.

GH has got it right much more often that wrong, but at the moment Delaney is looking like a mistake. He has a lot of improvement to do if he's really "Leeds class"...

I'm not sure delaney is a mistake. He may not be the most creative centre, but you can't have stars in each position. I think its only viewed a problem, as Senior is on the decline, which means we lack good cutting edge on either wing

I'd imagine a similar sort of finish next year, all the other teams seem to have strengthened whereas we've (as of yet) got nobody in.

Agreed, but we knew that Senior was in decline so why sign Delaney if he's not going to be a gamebreaker. Actually scrub that, he was a gamebreaker in the Cup final, sadly not in our favour.

Hardworking, but very average. Incidentally I don't blame him, it was an error on GH's part to take him in the first place.

Delaney was an underwhelming signing when he was announced. Moving him to second row may well get the best out of him since he's contracted for another two (?) years, but its basically an admission of a major stuff up, as that's not what he was signed for.

We have looked a tired team almost from the start of the season. We have two big pluses moving towards next year - we're unlikely to have many players on international duty in the off-season, and we won't have the hysterical focus on the WCC.

I really couldn't understand (and still don't) why the club as a whole got so wound up by a meaningless (but nice to win) game, losing games and having no form in the league around it. Wigan showed the value of momentum and confidence that comes from a strong start.

I do hope that this off-season is used to re-evaluate the structure that Leeds play. We should not struggle to create tries even without McGuire (or at other times in the past Burrow or Sinfield). Similarly, we should not struggle so much in the pack without Peacock. Not saying those players don't make a difference, but our overall gameplan and approach has to be more flexible. Sts have shown its possible to compete against anyone without their starting halfbacks. Given their relatively slow outside backs that says a heck of a lot about the way they play.

Bluey has done exceptionally well to date in terms of carrying on the good work largely with the squad Smith had, although the Challenge Cup failure was not a good one.

This next season will be a huge test for him and Leeds management generally. Whilst they have extended contracts to a lot of older players, it needs to be made clear that they will be treated pretty ruthlessly next season in terms of on-field performance. There'll be no point in playing an 'old head' just as a security blanket if they're not going to be around the following year.

i would agree that we had an attack around offloads and support hence the huge roles danny, robby and brent used to play in finishing. But never really structure imo, unless you call support play structure.. idk though.

I remeber we used to have such long range potentcy which seems a thing of the past now. Score a bucket load of tries from our own half, usually via teams doubling up on keith even in our 20m which created space on his inside and outside for your Bai's/Danny/Brents of the world. You could add a fit Ali to that list who operated on the left which made us unplayable at times. It used to be Seniors outside man had a ticket to 25+ tries a year. I remeber calling out the lack of structure for the tough games in the red zone up the middle, even under Smith. We had tools out wide to unlatch teams though, especially the Ali/Senior combo.

Now neither centre has any long range capability and rarely send their wingers through. Close to the line senior still has his power but no pace makes him managable for teams. Delaney has been well short of spark and looks more like a McKenna than anything else. With nothing coming out wide we rely too much on macguire to finsih or create something. Take him out of the equation and we're left truly exposed for the lack of organisation in the red zone, and devoid of talent in the 3/4's. Maybe an organising 7 has been missing for some years and Sinny has filled some of that role?? I think rob has what it takes but he needs to be shackled down a bit and drilled by the coaching staff. To quote macca he needs to play games wearing a dinner jacket and focus on bringing others into the game through organisation and structure, not be looking to duck and jive everythime he gets it. Coupled with at least 1 elite centre at the club a lot of things could get remedied in the transfer department

this basically. I should have read the whole thread before I poooasted but you talk sense as usual.

we havent won the superleague title since 96....have you been trapped in a time warp or something...

What a totally pathetic post, from someone I would not normally associate with the pathetic posters.

Care to give previous examples where failure expectations have been expressed?........ thought not.

Just grow up, and leave the bottom kissing to the normal.

I have said for a while that Leeds do not play to a set pattern. It has been touched upon by plenty on here too. When everyone is fit it works pretty well. However you take a couple of players out through injury, and a couple more on bad form and it looks a lot shakier.

Compare that to Saints, who play a very structured game. When they lose a player, be it a forward, or a back, they have someone who can come in and fit into the game plan. Every man knows their role in the team, and knows the structure. Their players are good, but its the structure they play to that is the key to how they remain so consistent. It may be that it is also the reason they have failed for the last 3 years, in that when they have met us in the GF we have been fully fit, fully fired up, and playing to a game plan of our own, designed to nullify theirs. I think that our plan relies too much on everything being right, which can fall apart very easily.

I don;t think we need wholesale changes, and I will be interested to see what changes occur when McDermott is on-board. Will we see more structure, more young players in the team. I expect McDermott to be head coach for 2012, so he will surely have a large say in first team matters next season.

On the whole, I think a new centre (which could be watkins), and a top line front rower will improve us no end. I think we have players to come into the team that can improve it, and we should have rotated better towards the end of the year. If a top class organiser became available i'd be tempted, as Burrow has been poor this year, but he is capable of doing that role, as shown a few years ago for GB.

The likes of BJB, Watkins, Clarkson, Pitts, Ambler need to really step up so they can replace the players who will likely be leaving at the end of next year such as Senior, leuluai, Lauiti'iti, Webb.

a game too far , a season too far especially with the injuries.

hope we can sign a few players and bring some through too next year

three in a row was amazing in salary cap era

I agree with much of what others have pointed out on here and other threads.

Player recruitment is a difficult one though.

What has served us well in the recent past has been promoting excellent young talent from within and a sprinkle of NRL talen where required.

However from watching a lot of the U20's this year I'm not sure if the talent is there,certainly not to the same extent it was before.

The U20's have played a poor standard of Rugby this year especially. Not sure if that is down to some of the identified 'Talent' like Manning,Coady,Amor etc being loaned out due to the new age qualifications that came in this year at the level under first team or poor coaching?

Perhaps GH feels the latter and that is why Poaching has been shown the door?

I think the club may have realised they were short of talent at the next level down which is why they went into the National League market and bought Coady and Amor and immediately loaned them out along with the likes of Manning to play and hopefully develop more from playing senior rugby with a lot of hard pros in NL1 as opposed to u20 level?

However I don't think any of those named three have set the world alight at NL1 from what i've seen/read?

Pre season I had high hopes for Amor and still hope he will progress but since a reasonable debut on Boxing Day he has looked poor in the couple of 1st team chances he was given and even back out on loan/dual registration to where he was awesome in 2009 they have not seen anywhere near the same level of performance he was displaying week in week out before signing for us.

Manning also looked to have a bright future here but i'm sure the Fev fans for the most part have not rated him that highly and there were times where he was not being selected because his form was poor?

I know these NL1 signings can be risks and are nearly always a work in progress with a hope/realisation of what they might become so all is not lost yet.

The alternative then is to sign overseas or pay a transfer fee for SL players.

The first option has had some great sucess but for every success there is a Mark O'Neil and this season,although his on field performances when fit were great,Eastwood is going back home which shows the risk of going into the NRL market as you never know how the player and his family will settle,look at Eastwood and Dallas Johnson and the Wakefield Prop whose name escapes me (Tronk?) but only played about 8 matchses but even then,half way through the season he was still top of the Opta metre maker stats.

As Bluey said after the game Leeds refuse to speculate on transfers and there is hardly ever any gossip in the RL press about who we are in for,certainly nothing like with other teams but i'm also left wondering sometimes whether we end up getting our first choice or making do? The club will obviously always say they got their number one choice.

I know for a fact we were in discussions with Ryan Atkins but we pulled out at his wage demands so he went to Wire and we then signed Delaney.

Delaney has got some stick on here but I like him. ''Does what it says on the tin''. People who watched the NRL told us he was a steady eddy no nonsence hard working player not a Gasnier or Inglis and that is exactly what we got.

If people wanted speed and more of a gutting edge then maybe most would have preferred Atkins although at the time i'm sure many on here were saying we shouldn't touch Atkins with a barge pole?

I bet some of those posters are the same berating Delaney now?

It also seemed to be te concensus that our number one forward target was Frank Pritchard and then we announce Eastwood instead. With hindsight we'd have probably been better with Pritchard (assuming he'd have settled) given that we've seen too little of Eastwood before his early departure,although i'm sure had he stayed he would/could have become a legend over here for us.

The other option of paying transfer fees or signing out of contract SL players seems to have served us well but doesn't seem to have been over used in recent times? The ones I remember are Peacock,Ellis,Poaching ,Dunneman and they all proved successful

Definitely interesting times ahead. The club have got most things right over a long period of time so we'll have to trust they have it all sussed out again and will talk up a 'big' signing just before the season ticket early bird deadline