Well what other way is there of looking at it?

Best team? Most consistent?

Not really.

The fixture list was lop sided and the last 2 years theres just been a point difference.

That I'd rather finish 1st and get a meaningless trophy than finish 2nd and get nothing? Both give you a great shot at the GF so in that sense there's not much difference, but my approach would always be it's better to finish 1st than 2nd, 2nd than 3rd, 3rd than 4th . . . .

We've won it from both positions, I prefer winning it from top, but other than that it matters little. You don't care where you finish, fine. I'd like to finish top for a 5th consecutuve year, also fine.

Anyway, I only replied because it was said that Saints won't care whether we finish top - knowing the mentality of the likes of Wellens/Cunningham/Graham etc, they will definitely want top spot again.

do the players get a memento for finishing top i.e a medal?

Firstly, I did not say that they would not care about finishing top, what I said was if they get to the Grand Final and lose again for the third time in a row then it will not be any consolation, maybe like it has been in previous years. Ok, it was poor sentence structuring on my part, but it clear what I meant.

Pity that for the last two years the 'mentality' that got them to finish top has deserted them on Grand Final day eh?

It wasn't a consolation last year. It probably wasn't a consolation the previous year. I don't think being top is seen as a consolation for anything. It's an achievement in and of itself and I don't believe for one moment that fans of every other club, including yours, would like to be top, regardless of the bravado. Of course we would like to win the Grand Final. We have to get there first and we aren't as consistent as last season so it's looking less likely than last season. But if we do get there then we will want to win it, not least because if they get there again and lose again the fans will string them all up by their gonads.

FTV has every right to be proud that his team has finished top 4 years in a row. Its' a great achievement.

It doesn't de-merit the champions which is rightly decided by a GF but FTV never said it did.

Why the insecurity about this issue from our fans?

Everyone seems to be reading far too much into my posts and comments here. I am not being insecure about it, but I am starting to think it might be the other way round!

Listen, I wish we had finished top 4 years in a row, you are very correct to be proud of this fact, it is a great achievement, I wish we had done it and not you, I would like to finish top this year... but I would like to win the Grand Final more!

I am not knocking or devaluing the leaders leaders titles, however would I swap 2 or even 3 league leaders shields for 2 or possibly 3 Grand Final wins... in a heartbeat and so would you!

A silver versation of the GF ring.

Ties...................cable ties in fact for the scousers.

nice on ha ha ha

nice on ha ha ha

Yes you are, extremely so as you keep mentioning Leeds 2 GF wins, even though it has nothing to do with what FTV is saying, nor is he in anyway saying anything about Leeds

Where do I mention anything about Leeds, Leeds GF wins or even use the word Leeds, other than in the first person as 'we'... and of course I support them, so that would be normal and a frame of reference given that I am on a board dedicated to supporting Leeds!

I made a very simple comment about how I thought that, with potential hindsight, if Saints and their fans were to win the league (which they look likely to do again) and then did not go on to win the GF (against anyone in the top eight, lets face it, we are not on great form and Huddersfield look a more consistent outfit), that collecting league wins without winning the overall SL title will be very disappointing. If it was possible for the RL fairy to come along and ask the club if they were to give up winning the league she could promise that they would win the GF would they take it? I think if she had asked that question 2 or 3 years ago they would have said no, we will take the league title and take our chance of getting to and winning the GF also... but now given how much they have dominated the game in the last 4/5 years and the last two GF loses in particular???

I am not trying to bait Saints fans or put them down. I am not insecure either, I don't currently feel we are going to win either the league or the GF (if we even get there) because our form is not good enough. As such, if we win either of even both it will be great. However, why is it that Saints supporters keep coming and this board and reading far to much into my posts and keep telling me how much of an achievement winning the league is and how proud they are of the fact... I know that, I have said I would have taken all those wins as well! Seems to me I have just made an observation that has hit a raw nerve and the insecurity comes from the fact that it might turn out to be true!

If I am so insecure about our GF final wins or even what I see as our lesser chance of winning the SL title again, why am I not posting these comments on a Saints board, and why are Saints fans posting their comments on ours?

Roles reversed.

Imagine leeds finished top for 4 years on the trot and you beat us in back to back grand finals.

Can you imagine your response to leeds fans being ''proud'' of finishing top and not winning the title 3 out of 4 times?

You rabid idiots would be all over it.

I think leeds fans have been pretty restrained to your continual comments about top spot these past few years. We could have really gone to town on your asses.

I think there's an argument that it's better to finish second this season, assuming both sides win their first play-off game. The idea that you can choose your opponents is, in my opinion, a poisoned chalice. Either way you've got to win 2 home games to get to OT, and I'd rather not give my opponents the "gee-up" picking them would cause.

If we do end up finishing top, great, but I'm really not bothered one little bit.