a one dimensional coach with very little tactical nous picks players who arent good enough.
only one thing was going to happen once they met a decent team

To be fair Wane's also stuck with the perennial problem of not enough class players. While some of those mentioned didn't play well, there aren't exactly a horde of obviously better players not getting a game. On the plus side Welsby, Farnworth and Young look good and are young enough to be around for years. We desperately need a halfback who can kick, and our hooker needs to be better.

We had no decent kicking game, and as ever we seem to be incapable of playing without a ridiculous number of dumb mistakes. Not to mention our defence wasn't great. We would probably have been really exposed by Aus in the final, as I expect Samoa will be.

Speaks volumes that Newman if he was fit would be the only Leeds player seriously in the running for a spot in the England starting side. Oledzki might have done marginally better than some of the forwards Wane picked, but maybe not, and he certainly wouldn't be an automatic pick.

we had a halfback with an excellent kicking game in the squad.
he wasnt picked

He's also not a very good halfback.

I would imagine the reason he wasn't picked is that his defence and running game are not up to it at international level. Lomax would have made a difference, but he was sat at home resting his bicep when he should have been doing that months ago. When I looked at the squad and likely team some of the names raised my eyebrows: Tomkins, Mcllorum, Watkins, Hill and Hall should all be yesterdays men, but then you ask yourself "who else"? The list of candidates is thin to non existent. The England/GB coach always gets it in the neck from fans but generally the man at the top is well qualified. Wane, Bennett, Smith, Noble and Waite all had an established pedigree of success at club level or beyond. Fans (like me) who don't watch every game every week, don't understand the finer technicalities of the game, and don't see the players performing side by side in training, then howl about selection. Mal Reilly was the last national coach who was popular. He had the likes of Hanley, Schofield, Edwards, Gregory, Edwards, Newlove, Connolly, Offiah, Robinson, Davies, Betts and Clarke at his disposal. Until we start producing truly jnternational class players again we'll continue to be also rans.

Welsby may be good but did not look good yesterday and i do not think he is a stand off either

Welsby was terrible. Jackson Hastings wanted to play for England, the fact Wane refused to pick him and went with Welsby at stand off should cost Wane the England job. If you play Hastings in place of Welsby England would be in the World Cup Final.

I think the criticism of Welsby is abit harsh.
Out of position and first international game against opposition that didn't just self Implode.

Wane made some bad calls on the teams and "tactics" for sure but the bat plays in golden point were pure panic from those players.
The one from Whitehead,given his experience was horrible.

We need more international games against teams like Aus,NZ,Samoa. We need higher intensity games in SL either via less teams and better cap system or some other medium.
We also need the RFL to get games reffed like internationals and not a replay of the poor bans this year.

We have some great young players,we need to start building around them,not using players who are too old.

Samoa did fantastic though. Yellow card and lost two to HIA. Worked hard for each other and targeted our players weaknesses

I think there were some dubious team selections.. It seemed to be a typical SW team.. try and bully the opposition, then capitalise on mistakes. Having MM at hooker was a mistake as he gives zero go forward unlike a Roby type player would.. Tomkins as full back i don;t think was the right choice. Pretty average. We just came up with dumb plays. Probably having 3 easy pook games pkus an easy(ish) quarter final did us no favours. It was difficult to see where the team actually was in regards to performance levels.. In the semi, the lack of ball that went through hands was shocking and the wingers were starved of ball. Not sure how KW didn;t manage to ground the ball. Maybe just a great defensive play. Small margins at the end of the day. We had chances, just failed to excute them well enough.

Absolutely spot on.

The bat plays come from a coach who doesn't reflect composure hence the players not dealing with pressure either.

Some pretty knee jerk reactions on here and some spot on reactions too. We paid for some lapses in concentration and some unforced errors. We lost in golden point extra time so it wasn't as if England were outclassed so perhaps a bit of perspective is needed?

Some selections were down to the fact that there was nobody else available. McIlorum would be nowhere near the side if Roby was still available. If Hodgson was fit he'd probably be in front of him too. Watkins had an absolute mare but would he be in the side if Newman had been fit? Would Hill have been in if Walmsley was fit? On Hill I thought he had a decent world cup and was better than Oledzki who will improve I'm sure.

Welsby is only young and going to be a top player. I think his on field persona can rile non Saints fans but as a neutral he gets in my England 13 every day of the week.

I think the perspective/context may be a bit clearer next week Sam when Aus (in my opinion) will blow that samoa side off the park and we'll see just how far off we are (still). Fair enough if they were outstanding, but they weren't, and we were poor.

Agree with a lot of that you`ve said.
Wrt Welsby I would have him in my starting 13 but at FB in place of Tomkins and possibly Sneyd alongside Williams in the halves which is harsh om Tomkins I know.
Hill I disagreed with at the start but has been decent. Cooper for me was always the wrong selection.
Other than that not many other players would have got in that were available.

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