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| FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > New RL structure from 2015 |
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Formats similar to this have been tried in football and have been dropped after a couple of seasons. It is also very similar to the recent proposals for sweaty sock kiss ball which the SPL/SFL have failed to push through.
I like a lot of fellow fans I speak want more intense matches, however this IMO is not the way.
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| Quote: Gotcha "Bloody hell, misread it then. That is absolutely awful. Quite often clubs have a period with a lot of players missing through injury, generally over the 7 to 12 game period. The fact that it could end up putting you down a level, not because you are not well run, not because you have poor recruitment, but because you are only allowed so many players (salary cap) and players are out injured, seems ridiculous.'"
mmmm, see what I mean now, at the start of each season every team is only certain of their first five home fixtures, after that they could in theory indicate which weekend they'll be at home but even that won't be certain when you have clubs who share grounds etc as you won't know when you're going to play them or even if you're going to play them, only that you might if you do well and they do well - will we play Hull in the second half of the season, will their ground be available on the allocated weekend when they can't book it until April or May, etc etc.
So you sell a season ticket for five home games in November/December and then everyone waits to see what transpires before they consider the second tranche of fixtures and whether it'll be worth it for the rest of the season during which time the club has lost, what, 60% of its pre-christmas income ?
Its got lots of clubs in administration written all over it. | | |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "I cant see the reason why we would choose this system, nor can I see the reasoning of those who want change for changes sake, or just because we ‘have to do something’. I really cannot see the reasoning for trying something we have already tried that didn’t work.'"
It's not a change for changes sake the bottom 3 teams in SL aren't that good and P+R may give them the boot to sort their sh## out.
Franchising has failed and it's clear most players want less fixtures and a more comepetitive league so IMO a 12 team SL and a return to a top 6 play off series and p+r will make it more competitive plus give more gaps in the fixture list for international games/rest.
The CC reverting back to May gives it more prestige and breaks up the regular season nicely rather than shoe horned into August just before we hit the play off series.
How much longer should we "protect" clubs at the bottom and block the ones in the Championship from promotion? | | |
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| Quote: Lawrie L "Who are InSports?'"
Bein Sport is the French subscription sports channel, owned by Al Jazeera. They cover every home Catalans match live and show the SL matches covered by Sky too and plenty of NRL games as well. And they have commentators who put Eddie and Stevo to shame with their appreciation of the game. They loved the Watkins try last night: "Fantastique! FANTASTIQUE!!" | | | |
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seems very very similar to what the powers that be tried to do with Scottish football..... a lot of teams and fans were all for it
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I love the idea and actually broke the news here a week ago:
forums.leagueunlimited.com/showt ... p?t=419502
This was my original post,
"So, hypothetically, what would be your views on a totally new league concept.
Lets hypothetically start with say, 2 leagues of 12. Lets be generic and call it SL1 and SL2. You play everyone in your league once. After the 11 games, you split the 2 leagues into 3 and play every one in your 8 twice. So the top 8 in SL1 would play each other, the bottom 4 from SL1 and the top 4 from SL2 would make up the next 8 and play each other and then the bottom 8 from SL 2 would make the final league.
Now, hypothetically, what this does is creates something to play for in every match. The 1st 11 games qualify you for the best standard. Those who miss out then play against the best 4 teams in SL2, then below the top 4 in SL2 they will be playing to reach that standard.
It also makes the intensity better throughout, as after the 1st 11 games you play teams at or similar to yourself every week. This in turn gives your players a taste of a higher standard of competition every week. If that's hard for you to get your head round, ill do a current example.
SL1 after 11 games:
Wigan
Hudds
Warrington
Leeds
Catalan
Bradford
St Helens
Hull FC
Hull KR
Wakefield
Widnes
London
SL2
Salford
Castleford
Halifax
Featherstone
Sheffield
Batley
Leigh
Whitehaven
Hunslet
York
Dewsbury
Workington
Your first divisions would then be:
Wigan
Hudds
Warrington
Leeds
Catalan
Bradford
St Helens
Hull
Next would be:
Hull KR
Wakefiekd
Widnes
Salford
London
Castleford
Halifax
Featherstone
And the bottom would be:
Sheffield
Batley
Leigh
Whitehaven
Hunslet
York
Dewsbury
Workington
I'm assuming there would be a 4 team playoff for the champions.
The top 4 of the mid division would start in SL1 the season after.
So, what's people's thoughts if something like this happened? Personally, I like it. It adds competition across the board and gives everyone something to play for at some point of the season. It also means that for the majority of the season, you will be in an intense competition playing teams at your level.
Maybe even make the top team in the 3rd league of 10, below SL1 and 2, able to get promoted. This meaning all teams in the bottom division of the 3 have something to play for.
Just a thought..." |
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I love the idea and actually broke the news here a week ago:
forums.leagueunlimited.com/showt ... p?t=419502
This was my original post,
"So, hypothetically, what would be your views on a totally new league concept.
Lets hypothetically start with say, 2 leagues of 12. Lets be generic and call it SL1 and SL2. You play everyone in your league once. After the 11 games, you split the 2 leagues into 3 and play every one in your 8 twice. So the top 8 in SL1 would play each other, the bottom 4 from SL1 and the top 4 from SL2 would make up the next 8 and play each other and then the bottom 8 from SL 2 would make the final league.
Now, hypothetically, what this does is creates something to play for in every match. The 1st 11 games qualify you for the best standard. Those who miss out then play against the best 4 teams in SL2, then below the top 4 in SL2 they will be playing to reach that standard.
It also makes the intensity better throughout, as after the 1st 11 games you play teams at or similar to yourself every week. This in turn gives your players a taste of a higher standard of competition every week. If that's hard for you to get your head round, ill do a current example.
SL1 after 11 games:
Wigan
Hudds
Warrington
Leeds
Catalan
Bradford
St Helens
Hull FC
Hull KR
Wakefield
Widnes
London
SL2
Salford
Castleford
Halifax
Featherstone
Sheffield
Batley
Leigh
Whitehaven
Hunslet
York
Dewsbury
Workington
Your first divisions would then be:
Wigan
Hudds
Warrington
Leeds
Catalan
Bradford
St Helens
Hull
Next would be:
Hull KR
Wakefiekd
Widnes
Salford
London
Castleford
Halifax
Featherstone
And the bottom would be:
Sheffield
Batley
Leigh
Whitehaven
Hunslet
York
Dewsbury
Workington
I'm assuming there would be a 4 team playoff for the champions.
The top 4 of the mid division would start in SL1 the season after.
So, what's people's thoughts if something like this happened? Personally, I like it. It adds competition across the board and gives everyone something to play for at some point of the season. It also means that for the majority of the season, you will be in an intense competition playing teams at your level.
Maybe even make the top team in the 3rd league of 10, below SL1 and 2, able to get promoted. This meaning all teams in the bottom division of the 3 have something to play for.
Just a thought..." | |
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[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: rhinoms "It's not a change for changes sake the bottom 3 teams in SL aren't that good and P+R may give them the boot to sort their sh## out.'" How? Cas's problem is not enough money. How is giving them less money, less exposure, playing in front of lower attendances going to help them 'sort their sh## out? And how come the 2 other times they were relegated didnt 'sort their sh## out'? How come it didnt sort salfords sh## out? How come it didnt sort Workington, Halifax, Leigh, Oldham out? How come is massively damaged those clubs?
Quote: rhinoms "Franchising has failed and it's clear most players want less fixtures and a more comepetitive league so IMO a 12 team SL and a return to a top 6 play off series and p+r will make it more competitive plus give more gaps in the fixture list for international games/rest.'" we had a 12 team league, with a top 6 play-off and P+R only a few years ago. The complaints people had was that it wasnt competitive enough. | | |
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[img:35s0tdes]http://i84.servimg.com/u/f84/12/34/74/45/lr200913.gif[/img:35s0tdes]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_35376.gif |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "How? Cas's problem is not enough money. How is giving them less money, less exposure, playing in front of lower attendances going to help them 'sort their sh## out? And how come the 2 other times they were relegated didnt 'sort their sh## out'? How come it didnt sort salfords sh## out? How come it didnt sort Workington, Halifax, Leigh, Oldham out? How come is massively damaged those clubs?
we had a 12 team league, with a top 6 play-off and P+R only a few years ago. The complaints people had was that it wasnt competitive enough.'"
Cas have major problems now trying to fund a SL team and are on the brink trying to standstill IF they go down their income will reduce but so will costs and give them time to restructure and get it right and possibly sell on to someone with the funding and nous to re-build the club ala Widnes and now fax.
Salford have a £££££ new owner but can't attact the crowds again re-grouping and re-building the team will give them chance to do that IF they were to go down.
As for the last time we had a 12 team league it was certainly better than the 14 one we have now and the top 6 rewarded teams that had actually WON more games than they'd lost.
Also reintroducing p+r gives the bottom clubs something to earn and fight for rather than not really giving a feck for the last 6weeks of the year.
Hopefully the new tv deal will put more ££££ into the sport and we can get a sponsor that can actually pay for the privlage then maybe we'll have more £££££ to go round.
Whatever the outcome the current system has failed and the top 8 is ridiculous so changes ARE needed and not just for the sake of change. | | | |
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//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Harrigan "I love the idea and actually broke the news here a week ago:
there wouldnt be something to play for in every game though. The second part of the league is no different, just smaller. You wouldnt need to win that league just qualify for the play-offs so the same complaints people have now would be still applicable.
The first part of the league is even worse. Firstly its very short, only 5 home games. Not a competition in itself people will care about, so the one and only thing people would care about would be being in the top 8. More than likely 5 wins would pretty much guarantee you a place in the top 8. So this season you would just have needed wins against Hull KR, Widnes, Wakefield and London plus one other, and you could take the next 6 games off.
Then think about it the other way. If you are a team who gets promoted, you are in reality promoted for only 11 games. Are you going to invest and make a real tilt at challenging for the play-offs when in 11 games you could be relegated again? Is a player going to join a promoted club for just 11 games? How is the promoted team supposed to budget when they could have a season where they play Leeds, Wigan et al 3 times, or they could play them just once.
Who is going to care about that 3rd division? finishing top or bottom in division 3 makes no difference to anyone. Its not even a competition to win, its a competition to be the 8th worst team in pro RL.
If they are really really, wanting to introduce some kind of P+R and include more clubs, whilst keeping the games competitive they could do it much easier and much less complicated, two leagues of 10 SL A and SL B (both operating at same SC) and then the championships
Top 10 clubs are in SL A, and they play each other twice, once home, once away = 18 games
2nd 10 clubs are in SL B and they play each other twice, once home, once away = 18 games
All the SL A clubs and SL B clubs then play each other once, 4 home, 4 away, 1MM, 1 on-the-road type game= 10 games.
After 28 game league season, top 4 of SL A go in to a top 6 play offs, top 2 of SL B clubs qualify for same play-offs. Top 4 SL B clubs are promoted, bottom 4 of SL A clubs are relegated.
P+R between SLB and the championship.
The problem would still be apparent in that we dont have the money to run 20 full-time pro clubs.
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//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: rhinoms "Cas have major problems now trying to fund a SL team and are on the brink trying to standstill IF they go down their income will reduce but so will costs and give them time to restructure and get it right and possibly sell on to someone with the funding and nous to re-build the club ala Widnes and now fax.'" Both of those clubs didnt rebuild and regroup because of relegation. They went bust and got a new owner. Neither are now SL clubs challenging at the top. Both Widnes and Fax were fundmentally damaged by relegation. As were Cas. Cas have been relegated twice in the last 6 years. Why is this relegation give them 'time to restructure and get it right' when the other two relegations didnt?
Quote: rhinoms "Salford have a £££££ new owner but can't attact the crowds again re-grouping and re-building the team will give them chance to do that IF they were to go down.'" How on earth are Salford going to rebuild their team and attract better crowds by going in to a league with less money, less visibility, is less attractive, has a lower profile and is at a lower level.
Quote: rhinoms "As for the last time we had a 12 team league it was certainly better than the 14 one we have now and the top 6 rewarded teams that had actually WON more games than they'd lost.'" In what way was it better? a 6 team play-off doesnt demand a 12 team league
Quote: rhinoms "Also reintroducing p+r gives the bottom clubs something to earn and fight for rather than not really giving a feck for the last 6weeks of the year. '" But fans didnt like that. Clubs at the bottom of SL get better crowds now than they did under P+R. For all the hoo-ha about the 'million pound match' where Wakefield and Cas fought over relegation and belle vue was packed. Well yeah. For that game it was. For the home game before it, V Leeds, only 5.5k were there, only 3.3k watched them against Les Catalans before that, 4k against Bradford, 5k against saints. By way of comparison in 2011, with no P+R, when Wakefield finished 2nd bottom those games got 8.7k v Leeds, 4.5k v Les Catalans, 6.5k v Bradford, and 6k v St helens.
Quote: rhinoms "Hopefully the new tv deal will put more ££££ into the sport and we can get a sponsor that can actually pay for the privlage then maybe we'll have more £££££ to go round.
Whatever the outcome the current system has failed and the top 8 is ridiculous so changes ARE needed and not just for the sake of change.'" Clubs wen bust before franchising, they went bust during franchising, if we change, clubs will go bust under whatever system we choose. | | |
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The new system would require, realistically, 20 full time teams all able to spend roughly within 4-500k of each other on players. We currently seem unable to have 14 full time able to do that. Where is the money coming from for the extra 6? If this money is available from somewhere then let's just have 2 leagues of 12 with straight P&R.
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Rule 1. I am always right.
Rule 2. If in any case I appear wrong, refer to rule 1.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_42170.jpg |
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I'd go with two leagues with 10 teams in each, each playing each-other twice. The top four in the top league enter a play-off mini league, where the top 2 make it through to the grandfinal after all playing eachother. So 1v4 2v4 1v3 2v4 1v2 3v4, giving the incentive of finishing first have 3 home games, 2nd 2 home games and 3rd one home game. This would work the same as any other league with points for winning and points difference also counting to reduce blow-out scores and teams resting players. The Same would apply in the 2nd league of 10 with the same mini league play-off series concept applying to teams 2-5, with the first placed team gaining promotion automatically.
The bottom two of each league would also be relegated. Or even if a focus to make every game count they could also enter a mini league similar to play-off teams where the bottom 4 play eachother and the 2 teams finishing last will be relegated. Therefore you'd have only 2 teams in each league with 'nothing to play for' however they would be either aiming to get into the top 4 or avoiding the bottom 4 which would make it exciting.
This would give a total of 18 league games, with 3 more play-off games for the bottom and top 4, and an extra game for the winners grand final.
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| Quote: Sibbs Rhinos "I'd go with two leagues with 10 teams in each, each playing each-other twice. The top four in the top league enter a play-off mini league, where the top 2 make it through to the grandfinal after all playing eachother. So 1v4 2v4 1v3 2v4 1v2 3v4, giving the incentive of finishing first have 3 home games, 2nd 2 home games and 3rd one home game. This would work the same as any other league with points for winning and points difference also counting to reduce blow-out scores and teams resting players. The Same would apply in the 2nd league of 10 with the same mini league play-off series concept applying to teams 2-5, with the first placed team gaining promotion automatically.
The bottom two of each league would also be relegated. Or even if a focus to make every game count they could also enter a mini league similar to play-off teams where the bottom 4 play eachother and the 2 teams finishing last will be relegated. Therefore you'd have only 2 teams in each league with 'nothing to play for' however they would be either aiming to get into the top 4 or avoiding the bottom 4 which would make it exciting.
This would give a total of 18 league games, with 3 more play-off games for the bottom and top 4, and an extra game for the winners grand final.'"
How do you deal with the big gap in standards and spending power between the leagues with P&R? And where does the extra money come from to make up for 9 fewer games (4 home games) in the season? | | |
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67953_1341943970.jpg
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
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----------------------------------------------------------:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67953.jpg |
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| Quote: Him "How do you deal with the big gap in standards and spending power between the leagues with P&R? And where does the extra money come from to make up for 9 fewer games (4 home games) in the season?'"
Very easy.
The SL teams have to play "three legged" style with two players tied together when they play the lower league teams, although if rumour is correct then Leeds will be able to play Jamie Peacock on his own under the new rules.
As for the shortfall in income - erm, bucket collections in Leeds on a Saturday afternoon.
That should do it. | | |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "Very easy.
The SL teams have to play "three legged" style with two players tied together when they play the lower league teams, although if rumour is correct then Leeds will be able to play Jamie Peacock on his own under the new rules.
As for the shortfall in income - erm, bucket collections in Leeds on a Saturday afternoon.
That should do it.'"
Just let the lower league teams use 14 players instead, Salford are visionaries. | | | |
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RLFANS Match Centre 
| Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1 | | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
| Wigan |
29 |
768 |
338 |
430 |
48 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
| Hull KR |
29 |
731 |
344 |
387 |
44 |
| Warrington |
29 |
769 |
351 |
418 |
42 |
| Leigh |
29 |
580 |
442 |
138 |
33 |
| Salford |
28 |
556 |
561 |
-5 |
32 |
| St.Helens |
28 |
618 |
411 |
207 |
30 |
| |
| Catalans |
27 |
475 |
427 |
48 |
30 |
| Leeds |
27 |
530 |
488 |
42 |
28 |
| Huddersfield |
27 |
468 |
658 |
-190 |
20 |
| Castleford |
27 |
425 |
735 |
-310 |
15 |
| Hull FC |
27 |
328 |
894 |
-566 |
6 |
| LondonB |
27 |
317 |
916 |
-599 |
6 |
| Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1 | | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
| Wakefield |
27 |
1032 |
275 |
757 |
52 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
| Toulouse |
26 |
765 |
388 |
377 |
37 |
| Bradford |
28 |
723 |
420 |
303 |
36 |
| York |
29 |
695 |
501 |
194 |
32 |
| Widnes |
27 |
561 |
502 |
59 |
29 |
| Featherstone |
27 |
634 |
525 |
109 |
28 |
| |
| Sheffield |
26 |
626 |
526 |
100 |
28 |
| Doncaster |
26 |
498 |
619 |
-121 |
25 |
| Halifax |
26 |
509 |
650 |
-141 |
22 |
| Batley |
26 |
422 |
591 |
-169 |
22 |
| Swinton |
28 |
484 |
676 |
-192 |
20 |
| Barrow |
25 |
442 |
720 |
-278 |
19 |
| Whitehaven |
25 |
437 |
826 |
-389 |
18 |
| Dewsbury |
27 |
348 |
879 |
-531 |
4 |
| Hunslet |
1 |
6 |
10 |
-4 |
0 |
|
