Keith m'dear. What relevance does appearing in a final have to success?
Why is the "Mickey Mouse" suddenly worthy?
Why is league position suddenly important?

I'm fairly sure someone with a remarkably similar depressing nature as your good self has discounted those 3 things I mentioned.
Indeed before Saints overtook Leeds no. of Challenge Cup wins it was denigrated by that person as the Mickey Mouse Cup. In 2006 I believe that person was under the illusion that Leeds had finished 6th in that season, due to their playoff performance.

Are you now saying you don't agree with yourse.. erm this other person?

Well, regardless of any petty dispute over various criteria by which to measure relative success, I think you'll be happy to agree that my point still stands - any degree of adulation that Leeds Rhino's fans hold their club's players in is due to genuine success, rather than any misplaced sycophancy.

Oh, please define [i'relative success'[/i and what you regard as the appropriate criteria for measuring it. And whilst you're at it, feel free to explain how it differs from [i'actual success'[/i and the appropriate criteria for measuring that... within the context of which club has been the most successful during the SL era of course. I appreciate that the [i'actual'[/i amount of silverware won didn't fit your earlier assertion, so perhaps you've now devised a [i'relative'[/i formula to do the job instead?


Again, I've not disputed your point on that. I have disputed your incorrect assertion that Leeds are the most successful team during the SL era based on your very own highly questionable criteria and I have done so with reference to genuine silverware actually won. Even if we exclude finishing top of the league and finals appearances which Saints have achieved with more regularity and consistency than Leeds, we are left with the number of trophies won. Saints have won 14 trophies (5 SL titles, 7 CC's, 2 WCC's) compared to Leeds 9 trophies (5 SL titles, 1 CC and 3 WCC's).

Wigan fans are without a doubt the biggest set of bell ends in any sport

Only on a par with anyone who are fans of Manchester Utd. But they are the biggest set of bell ends in Rugby League.

Without a doubt.

that's a pretty big chomp for quarter to four in the morning

TBH I'm just grateful our players haven't got what it takes to play union. Otherwise they'd maybe take the 30 pieces of silver on offer, just like that team of gods from over the hills.

They are certainly not the most gracious

I don't know about that, I'm sure they'll be congratulating Widnes later this afternoon.

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St Helens have been the most successful team of the SL Era in terms of trophies won but they've also been the most consistent over the period 1996 to 2011 only once finishing outside the top 4 and that was when they finished 5th in 2004.

Highest average Reg Rd finish : St Helens 2.31 (Leeds 2nd - 3.44, Wigan 3rd - 3.63)
Highest number of Reg Rd wins : St Helens 310 (Wigan 2nd - 287, Leeds 3rd - 286)
Highest number of Reg Rd comp points : St Helens 629 (Wigan 2nd - 586, Leeds 3rd - 583)
Highest Reg Rd scoring : St Helens 13,905 (2nd Bradford - 12,835, 3rd Leeds - 12,70icon_cool.gif
Lowest Reg Rd conceded : Wigan 7,832 (2nd St Helens 8,433, 3rd Leeds - 8,745)
Biggest Reg Rd points difference : St Helens 5,472 (2nd Wigan 4,714, 3rd Bradford 3,980)

__________

On the other hand looking beyond the SL Era and taking account of (arguably) the major recognised trophies on offer over the sports history: the Championship, Challenge Cup, John Player/Regal Trophy, Premiership, Yorkshire/Lancashire Cups, Floodlit Trophy and WCC it's possible Leeds have drawn level with St Helens in 2nd place on that list with 44. Still an age away from Wigan's 70 mind.

Looks like their management are trying to keep up with them in the bell-endedness stakes. Crazy disrespect to Widnes today but the arrogant clowns got their just desserts. Laugh?..I nearly shatt.

Careful. Don't get on the wrong side of their "ultras". They will darn a nasty flag making unpleasant messages about you.

Last year the Hicks were going to dominate for the next 10 years,now they are Blooding youngster's because there are so many of the world beaters OOC next year and wont last much longer.Ten years domination?

Does any one remember when we played Cas at home one saturday I think it was 2008 and we had almost a team of young kids ,and over 18k turned up to support them,and Leeds won that game and when the final whistle blew the Cas team were distraught?Cant do it like us Wigan,still not as good as you think you are