Correct.

I remember posters saying the same about Watson.FWIW I do rate Rowley.

Agar coached us to a CC, and Smith got us to a GF. They weren't, and aren't necessarily bad coaches. Timing seems to have more of an impact as much as anything else. Sometimes, you can have a good coach, but they're not the right person for the job at that particular time.

You have to have an enormous dose of luck with these things. Smith came highly recommended by loads of people, including Chev Walker who talked him up. Not all coaches and playing groups match for whatever reason. Sts have appointed both Holbrook and Woolf, who had similar reps to Smith, but have worked out much better for Saints.

There can definitely be a bias that the grass is always greener on the other side. For me though, a coach like Rowley seems to get the most out of his players and improves them, coaches a really attractive brand and manages to get a small pack to play with aggression. Smith hasn't managed any of those for me in the last two seasons (especially improving players).

Brian McDermott won more individually than each of those Saints coaches, and now is in the NRL.

It's not as simple as getting the coaching appointment right and success follows shortly.

The best Saints player is Welsby, who came through their own academy system, with a significant number of the rest of their squad. We're still playing catch-up with youth development to the likes of Saints and Wigan, and paying a premium in tranfer fees for signings as well as salaries to compensate.

I don't think we're in the same position as we were at the end of 2003. Maybe in a few years if the talented kids keep coming through.

If we're lucky we might emulate the Murray era team, but we don't seem to have the forwards. Bentley may be tough but he ain't Marc Glanville

Tony has just agreed to leave Hull , by Mutual Consent - PLEASE TAKE ROHAN WITH YOU --

PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It'll take more than a new coach to fix that mess.

Please !

We won one decent game in that cup win and that was in horrendous conditions at Wigan (yes we played well )
We were bloody awful in the Final .

Yes Smith did well to take us to a Grand Final , but we are not at that standard now despite spending more money , in fact we are not far off where we were when he took over

So you make excuses for when we win, but don't accept them when we lose? That doesn't seem logically consistent.

The point was that the timing of when a coach is hired, is just as important as who the coach is.

Powell was the right coach in 2002, but he wasn't in 2004. McClennen was the right man in 2008 to take over fromTS, but it was time for a change when McDermott came in.

Millward was great at Saints, but terrible at Wigan. Tim Sheens is one of the greatest coaches of all time at Canberra and initially at Wests, but was poor at KR. Tony Smith was superb at Leeds and Warrington, and good at KR, but Hull have been dreadful with him in charge. Does that make them bad coaches, or are they the wrong coach at the wrong time?

I'm very sceptical about RS, and I highly doubt he's the right coach for where we are now, as a club, but I definitely don't think he's a bad coach.

Dont be so sensible, dont you know this is no place for that

The verbal fisticuffs on here will be mild compared with the season end if we finish fifth or sixth.

If we finish 5th or 6th ??? You can have 1 to 6 , i`ll have 7 and below - would you like to put some money on it ?

I have absolutely no idea as to our final position. Seeing as we have a deeply flawed side and a coach who I don’t rate, I suspect it won’t be in the top four. I mentioned fifth and sixth place because depressingly I have heard several people say fifth or sixth would be fine ,as it’s part of our transition plan. Probably like the old Soviet Union tractor plan, lots of planning with no end result. My opinion ,finish out the top four Smith has to go.
Nevertheless for a bit of fun I accept your bet, £50 to the winner, who will donate the spoils to St Gemma’s hospice in Leeds.

lol that made me laugh but they might get a family discount for 2 tickets. So please do follow your uncle and take as much OXEN kit that you can cram in your duffle bag

Sometimes it’s worth coming on here for these little gems alone ! We browse the forum for the Rohan Smith debate, Matt Frawley’s kicking ability (or not) ….. and we get the Soviet Union tractor plan. Made my night that.