Yeah, like reading and writing, unlike yourself, right "pal"?

I'm not advocating the baby and bathwater doing one, but I do feel we need to settle back into simple structures with key positions filled by players who understand that position. Burrow has shown great moments at hooker, but generally they have been when he jumps out of dummy half. McShane has been good from what I've seen this year and would like to see him in the hooking role from the start of games. I believe this would get the team rolling forward better and I would hope give better ball to the backs.

Only if we exclude the Challenge Cup from player's records. I'm not even close to crossing that Rubicon just yet.



Is that an educated guess ....... well you're clearly an educated chap if it is. 2003 though, that was tight, only two Burrow tries in the opening thirteen Leeds games.



It sure is but with reference above it's not quite right unless you add SL Regular Rounds only in there somewhere.

I'd have thought loose forwards have often scored more tries than hookers.

You're just teasing me now, but you have a point in that Bailey is as much a loose forward as Burrow is a hooker.

You've just earned yourself 48 hours on the naughty step.

Always teasing, always have a point albeit it's rarely relevant to owt.

__________



Probably deserved. Shocking behaviour from someone who was recently banging on about how other clubs should merge or be told to f**k off from SL when he himself can't get along with a fellow Leeds fan ..... even if he can be an annoying little ..... only kidding.

We have struggled in attack all year especially on the opposition line. I have said this now for nearly three years we are picking a team around sinfield at stand off and this is all because Burrow was not cutting it as scrum half and the burrow mcquire combo not quite right. So we move burrow to hooker to allow our stand off mcquire to move to scrum half. If our coach has no confidence in mcshane as starting hooker I would put sinfield at hooker next year and move mcquire to stand off and sign a quality scrum half like Dobson to move the team around the field and give our three quarters some quality ball. Most teams I have seen this year in superleague are far better and structured with the ball in hand than leeds are. We have been masking over this problem since buderus left and Lunt managed to fill the void at the end of last year. Sinfield has always looked good at hooker for gb and his distribution and speed around the ruck are excellent. Burrow to play as impact off the bench and after we have raidered hull kr for Dobson at the end of the season why not sign mickey pea also. We need to get a good rumbing prop that can take the weight off peacock and Kyle and putt fear in the opposition. Moore needs to be released he is not good enough for Leeds IMO. When bailey went off on Monday we fell apart !!

I have already acknowledged his try and the agressive run he made just after that with his only tackle bust. Ok and he did make a lot of tackles but too many of those were 2nd or 3rd man in where he was able to add to his tackle tally yet wasn't effective enough ie: as an additional tackler he didn't bring the man down but rather was seen hanging on while the attacker made more metres. One of his big shots also looked a bit like a shoulder charge.

I am not sure what you mean by doing the business down the middle. Kylie made twice as many metres as Bailey. Kirke also looked solid in defence and was on before our 3rd try. Replacement Moore came on after their first try and I though made an inpact and his contribution included more metres, and extra tackle bust and an offload all more than Bailey in much less game time.

Vickery made more metres (just!) in fewer carries than Hall he also made 3 tackles more than Hall and was errorless. So while not pulling trees up made a greater contribution hence my comment which was not disingenuous. By the way I am a big Hall fan.

If only metres made included sideways darts.

I don't think it should even matter - I can't recall being 2nd or 3rd man in ever causing Juan a problem for Jones-Buchanan or Delaney's Opta tackle counts in the past.

Athough it takes less out of you physically than being first into the tackle, it is however a necessary requirement to have 2nd or 3rd man into the tackle with the aim to stop the forward movement and put the man down quickly. With JJB & Delaney's this is usually the result. These two along with JP are our best tacklers with a high number of 1st man in or solo tackles. All three manage to make big metres too!

As usual you choose to miss my point......which was that too many of Bailey's 2nd/3rd man tackles in did not stop the forward momentum and did not put the man down effectively enough. And he does not seem able to combine a high tackle count with decent forward metres. I do recognise his good work rate but commented that much of it was not effective enough.

Just seen the stats for the Saints match. Watkins 38 tackles including 9 at marker. Stats more suitable for a hooker than a strike centre.

So if you're saying usually you must accept on occasions it's not always the case with Delaney and Jones-Buchanan either but it's Bailey you're calling out here from Monday's game. I don't necessarily agree it's always the intention to put the man down quickly. Controlling the speed of the ruck by delaying the play the ball can also be an aim of the gang tackle tactic, holding a man up allows defences to set, anticipate the call of held from the referee and put the man to ground at the last second.



And play long minutes also - perhaps one contributes to the other. As Peacock, Jones-Buchanan and Delaney are in the top four tackles made by Leeds players according to Opta (Sinfield being the other) they may well lead on 1st man in on that basis - equally they may lead the numbers for 2nd and 3rd men in also - unlike you I haven't seen the breakdown.



Do you have any specific examples where Bailey's 2nd/3rd man tackles weren't to your satisfaction so that I may have a look? I'm sure you're correct but I've scanned through his opening stint and didn't find much of a negative on that aspect.

What I did see though was the one on one tackle on Thompson that forced an error in the fourth minute that led to Watkins opening the scoring. The smashing of one of the St Helens danger men (Puletua) in the 17th minute - again Bailey was 1st man in and drawing a penalty from Wilkin for a high shot two minutes later also. Unfortunately for Leeds he also got attracted to Howarth for the opening St Helens try as did Jones-Buchanan for the Soliola try shortly after. Yet more soft tries conceded in and around the ruck close to the line.




Much of it? Without examples to highlight the issue it's difficult to judge if you're being entirely fair to Bailey here.

Bailey does have a good work rate for a prop/loose forward and has good lateral movement enabling him to adjust and make tackles other props would struggle with. Bailey, Sinfield and Ward average 26 successful tackles a game in the SL Regular Rounds - Peacock 29, Delaney 32 and Jones-Buchanan 34. I don't have the minutes played but my impression is that Bailey gets fewer minutes on average than all those above him so rather than painting him as in some way ineffective we should recognise his value much as we do Peacock, Jones-Buchanan and Delaney.