The half back issue has become a problem more to the fact of Sutcliffe failing to develop his game than poor recruitment IMO. I think the plan was for Sutcliffe to partner McGuire for a couple of seasons, and then have Lilley come in for McGuire, a combination of injuries and poor performances has meant that the coaches look to have given up on Sutcliffe as a half, and are now trying to mould him into a back rower. Add in Lilley's relatively slow development, and Ward's injuries and evolution into a back row now we've been left with a massive hole that we'll have to try and fill from outside the club. I think we will see at least one half signed in the off season, and with the rumours of us signing Moss from KR, I can see Golding being given a bit of time in the halves also.
The fact is, the coaches did have a succession plan in place, it just hasn't worked, obviously they have to shoulder some of the blame for that, but the players have to also take their share of the blame for not taking the chances they've been given

would we? well I've said a half back and johnstone but if you think that's everybody crack on

a team should be mainly home grown/academy players sprinkled with quality players brought in. just my opinion mind but it worked for a few years

I dont think Lilley's progression has been slow, he is still very very young, especially for a half. I mean Patton played well last night but is still in and out of the Wire side and is nearly two years older.

I also think that whoever we brought through had an impossible job. Sinfield at 18 or 19 couldnt have replaced the Sinfield who retired,

My view is that id rather go with Mcguire, Sutcliffe, Lilley, et al unless we can get a real top quality player for the next 5 years or so. Sure if we can get Widdop go for it, If GH decides to release the purse strings and have some fun and make a play for Johnson im never going to turn down the opportunity to see him in a leeds shirt. If we are talking about a fringe NRL player or someone out for a last hurrah id rather take the risk with what we have.

fair points but kylie and Donald were fringe NRL players and they weren't bad

Well it was obvious to me that when Sinfield our main game manager, goal kicker and captain retired at the end of 2015 that we needed an experienced quality replacement immediately. With JP retiring at the same time this underlined the need for on field leadership. To me Sutcliffe never looked like he possessed the necessary skills or potential to provide the team with the organiser they needed for the start of the 2016 season. We needed Mags to continue doing what he does well and not expect him to suddenly become an organiser.

So the recruitment is now a season a day a half overdue.

This is pretty much spot on. Again people confuse succession with youngsters in comparison to what we did previously. Yes Sinfield as good as he was as a youngster wouldn't just change the way we are now, but that is the point that wasn't how it worked. But more importantly we are trying to do it with players who are nothing close to the level of ability Sinfield had at that age.

Sinfield came in with experience around him, experience that could play well. Again we are trying with experience not playing so great. We have the succession wrong.

Leeds lacked composure and kicking game in the halves most of the way through most of our grand final winning seasons. We were beaten by a Warrington side who were due a win and I think beat us in the middle. We were a man down, one try off them (with a dubious one allowed for them) and still a few players out with injuries or suspensions. If we can improve the kicking game (out of hand and goal kicks) we'll be right up there and we might see Golding taking over from McGuire in which case it'll be a full back we need.

It also took us 7 years from Sinfield making his debut for us to win anything but a solitary challenge cup. Sinfield was a first team regular for 5 years before we won the grand final and LLS in 04.

People portray the process of introducing the golden generation as simple, quick and painless but it was far from it. It was a period of 5 or 6 years with plenty of doubt and disappointment.

Also Sinfield is a ridiculous standard to hold the youngsters to.

We went 32 years without winning the title, mainly because they had the wrong policy's full stop. The change in policy to sign the best youngsters, develop them, and introduce them early to grow together, took us from chumps to champions. That couldn't happen over night. But regardless it was the right way, and since copied by others, including the current champions.

in early 2015 when sinfield was injured Sutcliffe was outstanding at 6. he deserved a shot. had we signed someone the same people would have moaned about youngsters not given a chance

Not me though tad. Sutcliffe had never shown at any point of either a junior or in the academy at Leeds that he would be a Super League stand off. Don't even agree on 2015. I thought he showed glimpses of ability and he has that in his locker, it it was just a matter of circumstances that he was playing stand off at the time,

Still doesn't change the point though, that Leeds planned over a few years to get success from a changed policy, players like Sutcliffe would never have a got close with that generation of youngsters we had around the turn of the century,

Would agree with this.There really was no excuse imo though for not addressing the HB issue before this season though.It is a clear area of weakness for us, we badly lack a playmaker/ game manager.

This seems a good argument against your own view point. We do have good youngsters, we are developing them, we are introducing them. Just how we were in say 2000-2002 when we were introducing Calderwood, Bailey, McGuire, Diskin, Mathers Burrow Walker, JJB and Sinfield. It took a couple of years to introduce them and we were still a couple of years away from a trophy.

McGuire, Walker and Burrow were 22 in 2004, JJB, Calderwood and Diskin 23, Mathers 21. Sinfield 24

Sutcliffe is 22 and has played in a challenge cup final and for a treble winning side, Lilley is 20, Golding 20, Handley 21, Smith 18,

Who could we get? Walsh? Williams? Kelly? Im not sold.

Spot on.