Unfair - but you are entitled to your opinion - I agree re McGuire he has been beefed up so much to aid his defence that the turn of pace he had he has no longer - Burrow only got the try because JJB held back the man so not sure that is Burrow creating something out of nothing anyone can run through an artificially created hole!!!

We will never agree Gareth about McGuire he is a player who polarises opinion - on Thursday night Graham Murray was all glowing about McGuire saying he had watched him in various training sessions and on the field and what a great player he was on the radio on Sunday Schofield basically said this losses are all down to McGuire so if the experts can't agree what chance have we - you pays your money you makes your choice.

It will be interesting to see if McClennan can turn it round - let's face it it took your Uber coach a further three seasons to repeat what he did in year one - there is no way you will McClennan the latitude you have gave Smith that is for sure - it is pretty rich when you critisise others for doing to McClennan what you have done for Smith.

All I have said about McClennan is that some of the rugby played in 2008 was the best Leeds have played in the SL era far superior to anything I saw under Smith - his record in 2008 compares favourably in every department to Smith's in 2007 with the same players.

Yes they are having a rough patch which has given you/stanningley some amo can he turn it round this season who knows let's face it his record cannot any worse than Smith's in 2005 ie 0 cups. Sadly that fact seems to have completely avoided your radar in the Smith love-fest.

I feel Bluey can turn it round. We need to look no further than the run up to the GF. Bashed by Saints in the playoffs, then turning up on the day and retaining our title. It can be done. I know the specifics are different (lack of any real form all season/lost last 3 at home etc), but the thing that Bluey has on his side is time. Leeds have the time to turn it round, and lose it again! He has work to do, no doubt. I will just be intersting to see how he turns it round on the pitch. Because line up shuffles are limited with our compact squad. IMO he is bemused with the lack of tempo that was so obvious last Friday, but he's gonna have to work that one out ASAP.

I expect Buley to turn it round and I certainly hope we are not as bad as we were on 2005 although we did make the CC final that year.
My point was made tongue in cheek about agenda but you have come out with pearlers in the past about Smith and how he got on with his players,one has now joined him at Warrington.
We did play some great stuff last season but we also played some great stuff under Smith especially in his first season and in the last one.We certainly aren't playing attractive rugby at the moment but I expect that to change.

can anyone think of any other finals in that worst ever year?

Ah yes beaten by the Bulls that year

You've only quoted one "expert" there.

No he didn't he questioned mcguire's form and indecision with ball in hand!!

David,

I was being a little unfair. A little light hearted poke at you, probably uncalled for but i know you can take it.

The thing is I rate McGuire and Burrow. I always have. When people were saying that they couldn't form a decent half back partnership I said they would, and they have.

I don't think you've ever rated Burrow and I am not sure why. I think he's a cracking little player. Does stuff on his own, directs the team well and has a good kicking game though he gets shoved down the pecking after McGuire and Sinfield.

The half backs are even less to blame for our current malaise than our right centre, IMO. McGuire does get knocked off far too often but that had also become a problem for Burrow. I am more concerned about McGuire's lack of pace. Its' like watching iestyn at the Bulls (thought nowhere near as bad). He opens up the gap but can't get through it or around the man any more. If that pace/acceleration is gone forever he can be a playmaker but not in our current structure with a complete lack of runners. Same for any half back.

I like McLennan and hope he eclipses what Smith did. I don't think he's as good a coach and I think he is to blame for the way we're playing at the moment but there's plenty of time. What irks me was the latitude afforded Mcl;ennan by our fans and the lukewarm feeling towards Smith. I judge them on results, not personalities.

At this point in 2005 Leeds were the World Club Champions, still in the Challenge Cup and sat on top of the league:

Leeds Played 11, Won 10, Drawn 0, Lost 1, Pts For 448, Pts Agst 162

They were 7 points clear of Hull in third. They had lost just one of their previous twenty-five SL Regular Round fixtures.

Fast forward to 2009:

No longer World Club Champions and out of the Challenge Cup despite getting a home tie, = third in the League on points difference from Huddersfield, Wakefield and Castleford.

Leeds Played 11, Won 7, Drawn 0, Lost 4, Pts For 243, Pts Agst 151

Were we really that bad in 2005 by comparison?

Thought we were going great in 2005 until Senior got injured. The CC final was right in the middle of the run in at the end of the season and took a huge toll on us. I strongly believe that if Mark Calderwood had managed to hold onto that Hull grubber kick at the end of the cup final, we would have won the lot that year.

Good perspective on the situation. It is still only April, and agree it will be interesting to see how he addresses the lack of tempo. Energies seemed to be up against Huddersfield, but this apparently hasn't been maintained against Quins.

Having watched quins a few times this season, when they stick to there game plan and turn up as a team they are a good side and shouldn't be underestimated.