I would agree with much of what you posted, but this has me baffled. What exactly have Saints accomplished that we haven't? They were not at "the top" last year, we were. They haven't won the SL title since 96 and last year they were potless, a situation that could also be the case this year.

There is a leaning towards Saints, even from our fans, that I find very strange. They seem to be forgiven failure in a way our team isn't. They are a great club, but we have edged them for quite some time now. If Saints have "continued to remaion at the top" then where have we been?

You do have expectations. You expect us to fail. You always expect us to fail.

I agree with a lot of whats been said and I do think its time to start the transition and blood some new players and maybe add 1 or 2 to the squad. I'd move Delaney into the back row and bring Watkins into the centres. I agree with some that Delaney hasn't been great in the centre but along with Peacock offers more meters per carry than any other player in the team, and he averages about 20 tackles a match. He should be moved into the pack where I think he could become a real gem of a second rower. Also as has been said bring BJB in and move Wbb to stand off to cover for McGuire. We need to try and get some pace back into the team, its a shame we couldn't keep Brouhgton as I think he would've been an excellent replacement for Donald.

My expectation is that Leeds will come into next season with more eagerness than ever and that we’ll win something. That challenge cup run until the final was pleasurable to see. Hopefully we can have it all season long rather than just for all the important games.

It’ll be Brian McLennan’s last year and this is probably the biggest challenge of his coaching career yet in getting a beaten side back on track. It should be exciting

My point was not just about the silverware but about being consistently in the finals and consistently delivering fast attractive rugby. But as you mention it - in the 14 years of SL Saints have been Grand Finalists 8 times and Champions 5 times against our 6 times finalists and 4 times champions. In the same period they have won the Cup 5 times and been losing finalist once against our one win and 3 loses in the Cup finals. So you would have to say they have a superior record over the full period of SL.

Our overall performances have also been very good and the recent ones brilliant - but Saints are there yet again finishing 2nd and in the GF whereas we have fallen behind. They have had their share of injuries but they still field a side full of ball players and they are playing a more attractive game than we are.

My point is that they have remained at the top with a consistent brand of rugby which is to be applauded. IMO despite our GF successes the quality of our rugby has declined over the last two years (when Ellis last played) and we have not adapted to changes in the PTB interpretations etc. I am not having a rant - just an observation

Yes it makes more sense for Delaney to move to the pack than Senior. He could become another McKenna who was much better in the pack. But we must get some pace back in the centres. Against Wigan when Sinfield scored he showed better centre play than Delaney has done all season.

GH has got it right much more often that wrong, but at the moment Delaney is looking like a mistake. He has a lot of improvement to do if he's really "Leeds class"...

I'm not sure delaney is a mistake. He may not be the most creative centre, but you can't have stars in each position. I think its only viewed a problem, as Senior is on the decline, which means we lack good cutting edge on either wing

I'd imagine a similar sort of finish next year, all the other teams seem to have strengthened whereas we've (as of yet) got nobody in.

Agreed, but we knew that Senior was in decline so why sign Delaney if he's not going to be a gamebreaker. Actually scrub that, he was a gamebreaker in the Cup final, sadly not in our favour.

Hardworking, but very average. Incidentally I don't blame him, it was an error on GH's part to take him in the first place.

Delaney was an underwhelming signing when he was announced. Moving him to second row may well get the best out of him since he's contracted for another two (?) years, but its basically an admission of a major stuff up, as that's not what he was signed for.

We have looked a tired team almost from the start of the season. We have two big pluses moving towards next year - we're unlikely to have many players on international duty in the off-season, and we won't have the hysterical focus on the WCC.

I really couldn't understand (and still don't) why the club as a whole got so wound up by a meaningless (but nice to win) game, losing games and having no form in the league around it. Wigan showed the value of momentum and confidence that comes from a strong start.

I do hope that this off-season is used to re-evaluate the structure that Leeds play. We should not struggle to create tries even without McGuire (or at other times in the past Burrow or Sinfield). Similarly, we should not struggle so much in the pack without Peacock. Not saying those players don't make a difference, but our overall gameplan and approach has to be more flexible. Sts have shown its possible to compete against anyone without their starting halfbacks. Given their relatively slow outside backs that says a heck of a lot about the way they play.

Bluey has done exceptionally well to date in terms of carrying on the good work largely with the squad Smith had, although the Challenge Cup failure was not a good one.

This next season will be a huge test for him and Leeds management generally. Whilst they have extended contracts to a lot of older players, it needs to be made clear that they will be treated pretty ruthlessly next season in terms of on-field performance. There'll be no point in playing an 'old head' just as a security blanket if they're not going to be around the following year.

i would agree that we had an attack around offloads and support hence the huge roles danny, robby and brent used to play in finishing. But never really structure imo, unless you call support play structure.. idk though.

I remeber we used to have such long range potentcy which seems a thing of the past now. Score a bucket load of tries from our own half, usually via teams doubling up on keith even in our 20m which created space on his inside and outside for your Bai's/Danny/Brents of the world. You could add a fit Ali to that list who operated on the left which made us unplayable at times. It used to be Seniors outside man had a ticket to 25+ tries a year. I remeber calling out the lack of structure for the tough games in the red zone up the middle, even under Smith. We had tools out wide to unlatch teams though, especially the Ali/Senior combo.

Now neither centre has any long range capability and rarely send their wingers through. Close to the line senior still has his power but no pace makes him managable for teams. Delaney has been well short of spark and looks more like a McKenna than anything else. With nothing coming out wide we rely too much on macguire to finsih or create something. Take him out of the equation and we're left truly exposed for the lack of organisation in the red zone, and devoid of talent in the 3/4's. Maybe an organising 7 has been missing for some years and Sinny has filled some of that role?? I think rob has what it takes but he needs to be shackled down a bit and drilled by the coaching staff. To quote macca he needs to play games wearing a dinner jacket and focus on bringing others into the game through organisation and structure, not be looking to duck and jive everythime he gets it. Coupled with at least 1 elite centre at the club a lot of things could get remedied in the transfer department

this basically. I should have read the whole thread before I poooasted but you talk sense as usual.

we havent won the superleague title since 96....have you been trapped in a time warp or something...