FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Burgess NOT going back to Souths |
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "I don't think you are quoting Ford accurately. You omitted to say he also said after his first game back after the WC Burgess went to Ford to say his head didn't feel right so he was given leave to sort it out and come back refreshed. Ford also said the after effects of a WC can effect players in different ways and at different times in certain cases taking months. Watson and Ford Jun. have not shown ill effects yet so hence no time off yet. So no holes there.
Burgess has to stay silent until a deal is done as he is a Bath player under contract to a club he respects. I agree that the signs are that he wants out for understandable reasons but while ever there is no deal on the table or acceptable to Bath then SB has to stay quiet.
Leeds have not made an offer because SB is under contract and have made clear they will only do so if the club say they will accept offers. It is quite reasonable that Bath will expect Sam to honour his contract and they may chose to refuse to consider offers and see if time will heal SAM's worries.
If a deal is not agreed this week it will be interesting to see if Sam plays at the weekend as it was reported he said he had played his last game of Union. My guess is Ford wants to at least prove that comment wrong.'"
I haven't misquoted Ford, he's just given several answers about Burgess over the weeks that contradict one another.
I do know he said the one you listed above. He also at a different time said the one I mentioned.
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| Take the point that 6 and 7 are involved more than others and that plenty of people enjoy it, however in england matches ball is usually in play for 35 of the 80 minutes. Will sam want to spend a fair chunk of those Minutes in the premiership/ test matches rolling around on the floor playing tug of war for the ball? Worse still he may not be get any good at the dark arts of the breakdown. I can enjoy watching union the way nz and aus can play it but sam has to play for england. If he stays at bath, good luck to him and I hope he can become a top international back row. I don't know much about RU forward play but the best like Hill, back, mccaw, pocock always seem to be the guys mess up the opposition at the breakdown. Those are skills he does not yet possess.
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40515_1330766741.jpg Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40515.jpg |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "I haven't misquoted Ford, he's just given several answers about Burgess over the weeks that contradict one another.
I do know he said the one you listed above. He also at a different time said the one I mentioned.'"
Perhaps you are not reading the full quotes but just the headlines. I have found his full quotes to be consistent.
The latest news is that Sam will be playing at 6 this weekend and he has trained well, not said he wants to leave and his frame of mind has been brilliant. Time will tell
rlhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-burgess/11973031/Sam-Burgess-will-see-out-his-Bath-rugby-union-contract-insists-Mike-Ford.htmlrl
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40515_1330766741.jpg Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40515.jpg |
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| Quote: Mark Laurie "Take the point that 6 and 7 are involved more than others and that plenty of people enjoy it, however in england matches ball is usually in play for 35 of the 80 minutes. Will sam want to spend a fair chunk of those Minutes in the premiership/ test matches rolling around on the floor playing tug of war for the ball? Worse still he may not be get any good at the dark arts of the breakdown. I can enjoy watching union the way nz and aus can play it but sam has to play for england. If he stays at bath, good luck to him and I hope he can become a top international back row. I don't know much about RU forward play but the best like Hill, back, mccaw, pocock always seem to be the guys mess up the opposition at the breakdown. Those are skills he does not yet possess.'"
The back row will suit Burgess well as he is a forward and wants to be involved with tackles and carries which he will be. I personally see him as a No 8 ball carrier
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23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "Perhaps you are not reading the full quotes but just the headlines. I have found his full quotes to be consistent.
The latest news is that Sam will be playing at 6 this weekend and he has trained well, not said he wants to leave and his frame of mind has been brilliant. Time will tell
rlhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/sam-burgess/11973031/Sam-Burgess-will-see-out-his-Bath-rugby-union-contract-insists-Mike-Ford.htmlrl'"
Again you're just taking one version of what you've read.
Says on that one that they planned to use him as a sub for the first two games back then start the next two. (Given England's untimely exit that must've been a harshly arranged plan as he could've been playing a WC Final only a few days ago if all ever well). However on the video on BBC website he said it was always planned for him to have a break after the World Cup.
Contradictory is it not?
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| You might need to have a word with Ford to start playing no.8 not 6 or he may get even more confused! Ball carrier bit makes sense.
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40515_1330766741.jpg Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40515.jpg |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "Again you're just taking one version of what you've read.
Says on that one that they planned to use him as a sub for the first two games back then start the next two. (Given England's untimely exit that must've been a harshly arranged plan as he could've been playing a WC Final only a few days ago if all ever well). However on the video on BBC website he said it was always planned for him to have a break after the World Cup.
Contradictory is it not?'"
I am taking all versions into consideration and full quotes not just headlines. It is a full month since we were dumped out of the competition hardly a "harshly arranged plan" or even a hastily arranged one. So had we reached the final then the break would have come a bit later. Not contradictory and doesn't prove a conspiracy theory anyway.
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40515_1330766741.jpg Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40515.jpg |
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| Quote: Mark Laurie "You might need to have a word with Ford to start playing no.8 not 6 or he may get even more confused! Ball carrier bit makes sense.'"
His route to No 8 is best via No 6
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "I am taking all versions into consideration and full quotes not just headlines. It is a full month since we were dumped out of the competition hardly a "harshly arranged plan" or even a hastily arranged one. So had we reached the final then the break would have come a bit later. Not contradictory and doesn't prove a conspiracy theory anyway.'"
It was hastily arranged considering it says they planned for him to be a sub in Bath's OPENING two games. Given that the opening two games for them landed on WC QF and SF week then some quick planning was needed considering they'd have expected/hoped England to still be in the tournament.
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fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif :fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif |
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| No doubt Souths have been in touch, but to get him they'd have to free up a lot of cap space and agree to a fee. It's very difficult to do for next year without unbalancing their team entirely. Which would in turn be a poisoned chalice for Burgess because if they don't have a good year it won't be long before the knives are out and people question his value.
I tend to think he'll stay in RU for another season at least, if only because Souths can't get organised, but also because I think he'll want to be seen as a success in RU, which he can only do by playing. The idea that Souths' couldn't stump up whatever it takes in terms of fee is nonsense - Crowe is the poorest owner there.
Playing for England again will be a long slog IMO. The current coaches will all get the chop - its the minimum that will change as a result of what was a disaster on the field. A new coach might find it easier to pick him, but equally might want to steer well clear. TBH it probably depends on the coach. Eddie Jones the former Wallaby coach would be open to him as he's well aware of the capability of NRL players. But an English RU through-and-through type? Just don't see them wanting or needing the kind of rubbish associated with Burgess.
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40515_1330766741.jpg Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40515.jpg |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "It was hastily arranged considering it says they planned for him to be a sub in Bath's OPENING two games. Given that the opening two games for them landed on WC QF and SF week then some quick planning was needed considering they'd have expected/hoped England to still be in the tournament.'"
Have it your own way if that is what you want to believe. The point is not relevant anyway as Sam is staying with Bath.....at least for the moment.
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "Have it your own way if that is what you want to believe. The point is not relevant anyway as Sam is staying with Bath.....at least for the moment.'"
What you talking about, "if that's what i want to believe"......I'm quoting from an article YOU posted. Did you not read it?
Clearly says they planned to have him sub in Bath's opening two games then the next two at starter. These games fell in a period he would've expected/hoped to still be with England in he World Cup.
Elsewhere Ford said the World Cup players like Burgess were always doing to get a rest. Considering after those opening 4 games that they planned to use him they then start their European campaign it's unlikely he'd be getting rested for that period either.
So yes the point that I was making that Ford is contradicting himself does stand up, you even helped me make it by posting that article.
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40515_1330766741.jpg Don't worry about avoiding temptation.
As you grow older, it will avoid you!
- Winston Churchill:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40515.jpg |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "What you talking about, "if that's what i want to believe"......I'm quoting from an article YOU posted. Did you not read it?
Clearly says they planned to have him sub in Bath's opening two games then the next two at starter. These games fell in a period he would've expected/hoped to still be with England in he World Cup.
Elsewhere Ford said the World Cup players like Burgess were always doing to get a rest. Considering after those opening 4 games that they planned to use him they then start their European campaign it's unlikely he'd be getting rested for that period either.
So yes the point that I was making that Ford is contradicting himself does stand up, you even helped me make it by posting that article.'"
Which article and what date? And why does this matter?
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| The burgess saga has been a fiasco, he has never been given time to adapt to union. Unlike his kiwi counterpart money boy Williams .
Certain broadsheet scribes have conveniently made him one of the scapegoats for the World Cup disaster .
Cheerfully overlooking the fact he never got a decent pass in the Wales match, also England were winning when they hauled him off.
I would love to see him stay at bath and prove his critics wrong.
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| Quote: Backwoodsman "The burgess saga has been a fiasco, he has never been given time to adapt to union. Unlike his kiwi counterpart money boy Williams .'"
Part of which is his own fault. He could have stuck around at Souths until the end of the 2015 NRL season, come into the sport with the next World Cup still four years away and slowly built his way into the England side through weight of club performances.
Instead he opted to jump ship at a time that left him just 12 months to learn the game before the most high profile examination of his talents in front of a worldwide audience, under the additional pressure of expectation from the hosts.
Amidst some of the various post-tournament bits of mud-slinging, it's been a bit lost that this is a situation partly of Sam's own making,
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