Some of the fans last night were an embarrassment . Some of the comments they were coming out with were priceless .
' I have never seen such e'
'I have never seen us play so badly'
Fookin useless bunch of w4nkers'
etc etc etc ..

Guessing those fans haven't been following Leeds very long .

The Wigan walk was a disgrace . I almost got trampled at about the 60 mins mark .

Bradford should be interesting . No home or away supporters 20k in 20 days .. Be lucky if they get 10k on Thursday with the performances both teams have been putting in recently ..

Are you Wigan in disguise?

Tony Smith said the same thing when he arrived at Headingley.
To the team, not the press.
Leeds at that time were in the habit of losing to Bradford and he asked the players to estimate their past completion rates against Bradford.
I don't recall the average rate but it was high but Smith was making the point that despite high completion rates they weren't succeeding.
He was saying that completion rates are not the be-all and end-all, you do need to play the percentages sometimes.

What appears to be missing is a game plan and the basic skills required when chucking the ball around.

Why do things have to be so black and white. There are multiple problems with the team at the moment. The coach is one, the players are another. Not sure why McDermott was brought in, I was initially confident, but I'm not so sure now. I wouldn't sack him yet though. For me, he's in the Daryl Powell position, manage the transition accept a couple of lean years, and hopefully build a decent team which we can hand on to a top coach.

The players is a more complex issue. In 2009 when we won the SL (for the third time in a row), Sinfield mentioned that the players all accepted less moeny at Rhinos than they would elsewhere. Now the culture of the club has bought that loyalty from the players. That loyalty cuts both ways, and some of the older players are being rewarded for that loyalty shown earlier. I guess it sets down a marker to other players that loyalty is a two way thing.

Recruitment is also something I think we have been poor in. We have known about Seniors decline for a couple of years ago, and yes we should still have stayed loyal to him, but we should have planned better for his retirement. Peacock and Sinfield will start to decline too, and we will really need to be thinking how we can try work without them. Fundamentally, I think the whole way we play will have to change.

Exactly.

So you are saying Smith saw a problem, coached and educated the players into playing percentages, taking calculated risks, to provide a winning formulae. Sounds like a plan.

Mcdermott has highlighted a similar thing, but what we are seeing is chaos, forced passes, bad options and failed sets. So, what's his plan? No one has come up with an answer yet, it beats me.

The job of the coach is to add value - not every coach has the best squad - what they have to do make the whole greater than the sum of its parts.

Can anyone hand on heart say the coach at Leeds is achieving this?

We have seen a number of games this year that have been away from us and slipped away, slipped away, slipped away.

When Mac tactically changes something on the pitch mid-game, a change of pattern, a different play, a change in ethos etc then he can't be blamed IMO. But he has failed to show any kudos as a coach in this area as yet.

There was the Bulls game, first game up, but I think the players thought that Bluey was still coach.

Look at both games at home against Giants 2010 + 2011. Last year the game was away from us and it was a classic comeback, this year it was never on the cards.

Too many differences this season to make any comparison meaningful. Hudderfield are a much better side this year (their coach also needed time!) Our key players that have been performing this year (Sinfield, Buderus & JJB) were feeling the effects of tremendous individual efforts in recent games and were not as effective. To have the classic comeback needs a classic offload game the one that many here have done nothing but criticise.

Why I am defending Mac is that he has had a set of problems that are not of his making and I believe that none of the other coaches in SL would have done any better given the same set of circumstances. He may turn out not to be the best man for the job but to put all the blame at his door at this stage is wrong.

Consider the following:

1. We started off with 2 wins and were playing some attractive rugby and topped the try & points scoring list. So this would indicate a reasonable pre-season and players understanding the coaches game plan.

2. He has started off without 2 of the 3 most influential players in the squad plus Bailey.

3. Our new injuries started in the 2nd game at Hull and have continued almost evey week since.

Remember he had no props for one game!

Remember how BJB was setting the SL on fire early doors - out on long term
injury.

Remember Delaney made such a good start in the 2nd row - out injured 2nd game.

Remember how well Burgess started the season and had been our best prop - out injured.

Also we have had to play matches withoiut Lauitiiti, Burgess, Kylie, Smith, Hardaker, Ablett, Cross, Clarkson, etc in addition to JP & DM and Bailey.

4. New signing Hauraki has had a terrible start with missed tackles and handling errors galore, matched by Senior whose form has deserted him. You cannot blame the coach for this yet these two between them have cost us victories.

5. We were unlucky to play Harlequinns when they were in a purple patch and top of the table.

So our problems are many and complex and added together are the reasons for the bad start. But no worse a start than last season when we did not have the above set of factors. What is now compounding our problems is the players know the supporters are unhappy and critical and this only puts further pressure on them leading to a further loss of confidence and a downward spiral. Soon they will prefer to play away than at Headingley.

I cannot overstate the serious set of injuries this year and I feel this is the main factor.

Despite all this we should have beaten Wigan and we showed for most of the game excellent attack and well organised defence but basic errors from Webb and Senior cost us the tries that would have sealed the victory despite the Wigan comeback and the switching off in defence in the last 15 minutes. This was not the coaches fault but the players.

These sort of errors are not down a a style of play they are players errors that they normally would not make.

Everyone knows that we have some real serious defensive issues but they are not new and were evident last season too. Some say the coach should have fixed it by now but the injuries have meant a constantly changing side with players out of position and him having to select some out of form and I guess also some not fully fit players because of neccessity.

Since our back to back GF wins too many posters seem to think it is our God given right to win everything now. Winning silverware should always be our target, but as there is only one GF winner and one CCup winner the odds will always be against this happening. If your only definition of success is silverware you are going to be disappointed for most of the time. (or go support Man U)

IMO what is more important is to watch attractive rugby and for Leeds to be in with a chance of victory as often as possible. St Helens have missed out on silverware so often but must be considered one of SL's most successful and entertaining sides- whats wrong with that.

That is why I say we should encourage our team to play thrilling rugby rather than one up stuff so we can enjoy the entertainment even when we lose.

SL is all about momentum. Not just during a game but in sequences of games. The other sides will have their turn and IMO we will improve enough to be round and about at the end of the season. I hope that the standard of play improves soon so that we can all get behind the team as having the crowd behind you is always worth a few points and improves the players confidence.

JC I admire your optimism and dedication. Sadly I do not share it.

Great post JC some very valid and relevant points well thought out and put across.
I agree in the main but do you not think the coach should be getting better efforts out of what is avialable and the lack of hunger ,desire and basic defensive structure and technique should fall at his door?
The improvement in teams like the Giants are there for all to see but again no matter what our problems are we could and should be so much better not least in terms of effort and the basics.
I do agree the players really should take their fair share if not most of the blame but they don't look like they want to play for the coach and more importantly the coach does'nt seem to know what to do about it.

I agree with you. Let's not forget from the very start of the season the defence has been a shambles.....the thing that many expected to be worked on specifically during the long close season. There was plenty of time to perfect discipline and answers to the enforced lay off of both McGuire and Peacock.

The players are lacking confidence progressively more as the season progresses...is that not the coaches' job to rectify that ? They hardly seem to be the most inspirational 10.16455078125:10