I think you should think before making such wild predictions. He may be finished at Leeds in 2 years, but even after that he'd still do a good job in SL with another side.

This is obviously assuming that he doesn't pick up a career ending injury

That's been answered and you can't deal with it. You've lost your rag because some people don't agree with you, because the coaching staff at the club don't agree with you and even fans of other clubs don't agree with you.

McShane, who you have championed over Diskin is nothing yet. He's shown average form while on loan to another club. Compare him to Scott Moore who stood out while on loan to Huddersfield and even earned an international call up. He may well develop into a top class player - I can't tell, I'm happy to let the coaches assess him, but I wouldn't dump Matt Diskin for him at this moment and I am going to guess that our management at Leeds haven't even contemplated it.

I've supported Leeds a long time, and for the first 20 odd years the standout feature of the club was it's compulsion to chase success by changeing the squad completely year after year after year. It became like rugby Bingo or Rugby Top Trumps. It didn't work. We got rid of players like Dave Heron far too early in their careers and replaced them with the Gary Divorty's of the World. There was a mentality of many supporters back then that you had to change the team every year and that you could look through the pages of Open Rugby and select from the World Rankings your squad for next year, or as soon as someone in the A team scored a hat trick against Batley A then we should immediately dump a current first team player. The number of players we went through was rediculous - and still we won nothing.
Players like Matt Diskin don't come to this club very often, in team sport - especially rugby - the composition and attitude of a team is as important as the ability levels. Matt is a damn fine player - still - and he brings far more to the table as well. If you want to play rugby Top Trumps, that's fine, we can all go back to the bad old days, but the management have shown consistantly that that is not the current policy. Long may it continue, because if it does, then we will still be racking up trophies for some time to come.

I remember a Dave Heron.

He was a classy loose forward, and I thought his career was at least 10 years. Imagine my surprise, when on checking found out he had made 380 appearances over a 15 year career with Leeds.

That's one five years!

Which David Heron are you on about?

Like a made to measure suit Gareth.

Your Ode was long on sentimental verbiage and short on realism, but hey ho, its your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Quote: BillyRhino "I remember a Dave Heron. He was a classy loose forward, and I thought his career was at least 10 years. Imagine my surprise, when on checking found out he had made 380 appearances over a 15 year career with Leeds. That's one five years! Which David Heron are you on about?'" www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 54220.html This Dave Heron. Interesting report isn't it?

Quote: BillyRhino "I remember a Dave Heron. He was a classy loose forward, and I thought his career was at least 10 years. Imagine my surprise, when on checking found out he had made 380 appearances over a 15 year career with Leeds. That's one five years! Which David Heron are you on about?'" www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 54220.html This Dave Heron. Interesting report isn't it?

Ah! The good old days

An excellent post their Brisbane, and one that most fans on here would instinctively agree with.The team spirit shown over the last few seasons has been immense, and all of us take pride in their fantastic achievments.

However, where I would differ from you, is that I think that any player must be picked on current form, no matter how glittering his carrer has been, or how much of a morale booster he is in the dressing room, and all must inevitably face the day when the manager says "thanks for all you've done, and goodbye" A sentimental manager will soon find himself sat watching the match among the sentimental fans.

Disco for me at 28 is not the player he was prior to his very bad leg injury. In fairness you wouldn't really expect him to be, and I genuinely hope he can continue to play rugby at a decent level. It might not be at Leeds, but that would in no way diminish his contribution over the last 10 years. There are options for the Club to express its loyalty.....perhaps a coaching position? Of course, if Buderus leaves at the end of the month, then it's a different ball game,and other decisions will have to be made, but I would feel the the squad to have been weakened.

Yes I remember that game well.

It prompted Alf Davies to break cover, appear on Look North, describe Leeds' performance as completely unacceptable, tell everyone that the problem within the camp was clear for all to see and that he would put an end to it or move people along.

Mentioning no names but two Great Britain greats were in the team that day.

Do people actually remember the Diskin from 2004? He was definitely a good player, but let's not forget he was probably playing in the most dominant Leeds side of the SL era (relative to the competition). IMO Diskin wasn't as good after his injury in 2005/6 (understandably) but he has steadily improved since, and I believe the current Diskin is the best one we've had.

I see no reason to let him go now, even though I think Buderus is the better hooker. Diskin is more important to the long-term stability of the club and should be the priority to keep, although ideally I'd like to see both players stay, with Diskin getting a 3-year deal and Buderus a 1-year deal.

I don't think the Matt Diskin of today would be able to score his Grand Final try of 2004. That's not to say he isn't able to score shorter range Grand Final tries though as he proved last season.

Your general point about morale is fine, but not sure how Dave Heron fits into it. A veteran player who had 15 years at Headingley was replaced at 13 by *Ellery Hanley*. That in itself it not a bad deal, whatever Garry Schofield may have thought.

Heron didn't have a lot left in the tank at that point, and playing a season behind that Bradford pack was a pretty easy assignment. That the Bradford pack included Powell and Medley against disappointing signings O'Neill and Goodway for Leeds, well, Alf Davies can have a look at himself about that.

Goodway and Dixon?

Quote: G1 "Your heroic defence of the wand is noted. Those that post more regularly than you know he's little more than an antagonistic t0ssp0t who'se only goal is to irritate but he often embarrasses himself. If you don't like the bluntness with which I state that let me say that i couldn't give a tuppeny poop.

To respond to the rest of your post I'd firstly like to say that whilst the acclaim of those 4 Grand Finals might be tedious to you they are very dear and important to me and I shall never consider them, or the heroes in blue and amber who sweat and bled to attain them, to be tedious. I shall probably bore the likes of you for some time yet by harping back to them.

Which leads me to my next point. Past glories might be of little relevance to you but they are to me and hopefully one or two others within our supporter base. These players, including a certain Matthew Diskin, have provided our long suffering (or recent glory hunting) supporter base with it's greatest EVER period of sustained success. That to me counts for something, even if it doesn't for you. It counts, to me, as a Leeds fan, for a great deal more than what a certain D Buderus has achived in the green and Gold of Australia, the Blue of NSW or whatever colours the Newcastle Knights wear. Mr Buderus might have had a glittering career before he came to Leeds and you and others may pleasure yourself over that but it counts for little to me. His 30 odd Leeds games, some of which have been poor, some of which have been good, some of which have been very good and few, if any of which have been sensational, count for not much compared to Matt Diskins 200 plus games, harry Sunderland, player of the year and four grand final wins.

You say Buderus is the better player. Perhaps, perhaps not. I am not so sure FOR LEEDS he has won that battle hands down yet. Regardless, this isn't fantasy football. This is about achieveing success where the TEAM is, and has been, greater than the sum of it's parts.

You want to divorce sentimentality from the discussion? Fine, that's because you're an archetypical list maker fantasy football fan with little understanding of what someone like Barrie McDermott is talking about when he talks about bleeding and fighting for your mates. You clearly know little about the dynamic of a team sport. Walk into the Leeds locker room and tell the lads sat in there, lads who have sweat, bled, cried, drank and succeeded along side Matt that it's time to cut him loose simply because he's "not as good as Buderus", or doesn't have the glittery international career Buderus has had. I'd imagine Diskin has more freinds willing to sacrifice more on that field for him amogst the Leeds players than our most expensive, Australian player has.

All this talk presumes Diskin is not a good player. Well, all this talk is garbage. Diskin is a fine hooker. Read Jamie Peacock's comments about him if you don't believe me. Think about the success we've enjoyed with him as our rake if you don't believe me. Think about why the coach still has him in the 17 if you don't believe me.

Buderus was a luxury signing. He's on a massive salary and is takling up a quota spot and has not lived up to expectations. When was he the man of the match btw? He's 34 and yet, despite that, our starry eyed fans would still rather him take up that quota spot for another season and discard our most succesful ever hooker.

That is why I coined the phrase fekkwitts. Because it fits.'"

Some fair points....but still a tendency to play to the gallery. I do not diminish the achievements - which are fantastic - rather the use of it as defence for present form.

I have no wish to be part of this immature "us" and "them" mentality.

Quote: BrisbaneRhino "Some people don't seem to think team spirit matters very much. The Douggie Laughton era side would have earned a shed-load more than the current squad in today's money. It certainly had true 'stars' of the game in the likes of Iro, Innes, Schofield and Hanley. All of the above plus a few others would walk into our current side - on paper. Yet as a group they rarely displayed any courage at all.

In discussions outside of Leeds fans, very few of our current squad would probably be classed as all-time greats individually. For Leeds yes but elsewhere probably not. And yet this squad has shown a toughness both physical and mental that means it's a team in the truest sense - when it counts they have performed as a unit better than the sum of the parts. In a salary cap environment that's priceless.

If that means we hang on to some players a bit longer than pure playing ability would suggest then sobeit. And if its a choice between Diskin and Buderus in terms of retention, then I'd kick 'Bedsy' back to Newcastle in a heartbeat. Not because Diskin's a better player, but because he's more than adequate, and a key component of our amazing success to date.

We will have some tough decisions to make over the next few years as the side ages - Peacock, Senior, Leuluai etc can't go on forever. And there almost certainly will come a time when a player is pushed out who'd rather stay. I really don't see how Diskin could possibly fall into that category yet.

Don't get me wrong by the way - IMO the current squad has EARNED the right to loyalty from the club. If they'd all been around for years but won nothing then I'd agree that there should be little room for sentimentality. But they've won three titles in a row and are now potentially placed to win the league and cup double. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for a while yet.'"

A very fine post. Most erudite. The first to sufficiently test my defence of Buderus over the plainly inferior Diskin.