Think the fact Newman is marquee, shows what a mess we have gotten into…..

I want Rohan to succeed at Leeds. He's done a huge job rebuilding the squad, junior development seems more on track and we seem a lot more professional as a club than under Agar.

But in the end the first team just has to do better.

Its starting to feel like last year, when we kept waiting for the team to turn the corner. We're hearing the same excuses - we weren't really that far off, just a few things went against us, we were in the contest, injuries, the mean other team keep slowing down the game, the referee isn't controlling the game the way we want, its raining, etc etc. We lost 34-8 at home to a team missing some of their best forwards. I must have missed the memo where it was decided that was an acceptable result, or that after the huge outlay on new players a 50% win ratio almost a third of the way into the season is OK.

I don't think its terminal yet, but if Smith doesn't have a serious rethink about some of the things we're doing then I don't think he will be here for the long-term, because I don't think dry weather or a fully fit squad alone will make much difference.

Slightly off topic but this week’s Saints -Warrington May give an indication of the true league form. Warrington far superior to us last week , be interesting to see how they shape up against Saints. Personally I think Saints, Wigan and Catalan are miles ahead of the rest of the pack. Sincerely hope it’s not another Saints-Wigan grand final. A final sobering thought ,our points for is the same as Leigh who have only won one match.

How many players did we produce who starred in the first team during the golden decade 2004 - 2015?
Senior, Peacock, Ellis, McDermott, Furner, Poaching, Lauitiiti, Webb. Bai,Luluia McDonald, Buderus, Moone. Plus many others who were None home produced.

Sinfield, McGuire, Watkins, Hall, Burrow all top quality and Yes there were some others like like Diskin Jones- Bishop, Bailey, Smith, Abblett (plus a few others) who were a level below also Gale and McShane who got away.
Great Rhinos players all but not so many big home academy produced players as you would imagine.
Obviously some names have been missed for whom I apologise and of course it is only my opinion which I am sure many will question.
My point being we probably have not produced as many big name internationals as might be imagined. I do believe we have a current crop from scholars to U18’s who just might come through and star in future first teams. So we are still amongst the best (certainly this side of the Pennines) at bringing on young talent.

But the way we play is not an anomaly!
Its been the same for the last 18 months its just the level of mistakes and player confidence that fluctuates!
We spend the majority of games defending in our own half ,flog our backs by expecting them to constantly bring the ball off their own line and rely on broken play to create scoring opportunities.When we make an error or concede a turnover because of the way we play it is usually in our half. The top teams do this in the opposition 20m.
This season we are 2nd for most team tackles made behind London and that tells you all you need to know.
I am not necessarily advocating getting rid of Rohan but if you keep doing the same thing you will across a season get a similar series of results.

That's my view as well. We're getting killed by mistakes because of where we're making them, as much as the number.

If we keep trying to play the same way we'll keep getting the same results. It works so sporadically that we can never build momentum across games. So confidence is always a bit brittle as well, and cannot get us across the line as it should.

I think we'll know more after the next few fixtures. If we lose again to Huddersfield, and they won't come to lie down, we're under pressure.

It's the manner of the defeats too - I could take the first league defeat against Saints because we were in it and competing throughout. The following week in the cup I thought was a bad performance, although not terrible. Way too sloppy against Wire, although we were in it for most of the game until it blew out.

Actually, no. We won’t know more, because we already know everything there is to know. We’ve seen it repeatedly already.

We’ll average out at 2/3 wins at best from every 6 games for the rest of the season.

From the next few games you’ll probably get a battling victory, a crap performance and easy defeat, and then maybe a meh performance and narrow defeat/win depending on how the cookie crumbles with decisions and injuries. We’ll be no wiser, if we pretend we don’t already know.

If you’re nearly 2 years in, and you’re still not sure about a coach, he’s definitely not the guy.

Hang on… do some of you on this thread not think Rohan is a decent coach or something?

A coach 100% has a huge bearing on the development of a player Jim, agreed, a player has to have the hunger and desire to be the best version of themselves, but that will more often than not be based around the physical development...size, strength, speed, fitness....

Where the coach earns their stripes is the technical and intelligence side of the game, teaching that player, even ones with all that desire, how to mould those physical gifts into an effective RL player, the nuisances of the game, knowing what good habbits look like and having the ability to install them, knowing what bad habbits look like and having the ability to eradicate them...

That said, The part i wrote about the next crop being wasted wasn't really directed at Rohan in particular, was just part of a frustrated rant TBH at the general state of the club on the field, for me, being hugely invested in the youth, what im seeing there is just as frustrating as the first team.....What i would say regarding Rohan, with knowing the version of rugby league he favours, do you have confidence he knows what good RL habbits look like to even try to install in the next batch? More importantly, when you watch these players in the reserves and Academy now, do you think they are getting that from Tony Smith? I hope to god im proved wrong, but my answer would be no to both

Was Fusitua believe its MoM now you don't much more bang for your Buck than those two legends.

I’m hearing there’s way less junior talent around to choose from Matt. New rules are marginalising the game even more. Is that what you’re seeing?

A good coach can get 110% out of players, can make average players look good players. This is achieved by not only knowledge of the game but having the physiological skills to mould players into a team that wants to win and play for each other the coach and the badge and creates a good culture.
Rhinos are a good group of players, with plenty of skill. Capable of much more but I’m not sure RS has the ability to get the best out of them. Something is lacking that is obvious. A good coach can have no excuses if after two years and three different teams he cannot produce a good consistent team. There are no excuses as the quality of players is good and the investment in bringing new players in and getting players out who were deemed not good enough done. We are lacking something that is obvious to most, leadership, man management. Someone you would follow out of the trenches. If the club does not act soon another season wasted in mid or lower regions of the table. For a club the size and wealth of Leeds it not acceptable!

I would say it goes in cycles shabs, me personaly, im not seeing a trend or pattern, just that some years/intakes will be more talented than others, which has always been the case, the current 1st year Academy and top age Scholarship for example would be one of the most talented side by side groups in recent memory with a potential 1 to 17 for next season as strong as we have seen in the Academy for years......If we develop them correctly

Theres some really good 2nd year scholarship players from Yorkshire community clubs who have joined Saints/Warrington scholarship aswel as the ones at Leeds, so plenty of talent around that age

Yep Matts there are a few in the system, recent team results notwithstanding, that look decent prospects. Good to see Max Simpson training again, he will take a couple of years to mature but he always looked good to me.