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"Leeds is the greatest club in Rugby League"
Alex Murphy 2011: |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "
Refs get stuff wrong, it happens. It's frustrating and I thnk some need to up their game at times but it's definately NOT because they're trying to cheat.'"
Any ref that says "speed it up in the ruck Sean, I've let four or five go", or as Thaler said a handful of times on Thursday when players lurched forward off the mark trying to win a penalty, "no,no, you're moving forward," is a cheat, simple as that. See an offence, penalise it. If you don't you are cheating the fairer players who play by the book.
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: leeds owl "Any ref that says "speed it up in the ruck Sean, I've let four or five go", or as Thaler said a handful of times on Thursday when players lurched forward off the mark trying to win a penalty, "no,no, you're moving forward," is a cheat, simple as that. See an offence, penalise it. If you don't you are cheating the fairer players who play by the book.'"
Great, games with 100 penalties awarded throughout......I'd love to watch that.
Refs have to find the right balance between penalising stuff and trying to let the game flow.
You make it sound so very black and white. A ref warns a player about something "clearly then if he's done something wrong it's a penalty and he's cheated by not giving it!".......reffing a game isn't as simplistic as that and if the game was reffed how you're suggesting it should be it'd be an awful spectacle.
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| Quote: leeds owl "You're talking like an idiot. Seems because you are a referee you think that your opinion carries more clout than a non referee, sorry to pee on your bonfire, but it doesn't, it's just another opinion. Let me ask you a couple of questions,
A; how often in a game do you see an offence being committed and choose to ignore it? Are you not cheating the fairer players by allowing law breakers to continually break the laws of the game, while the fairer players play at a disadvantage.
B; is your job as a referee to enforce the rules of the game without question ?
C; as a longstanding ref, have you changed your style of reffing because you are not brave enough to apply the rules as written in the rule book, simply because you want to fit the image of a modern ref that seeks a faster game.
I'll be interested to see your answers, but would class you as a weak person if you have changed your reffing style or enforcement of the laws just to fit in with the RFL's modern stereotype. How many governing bodies would order their referees to ignore offences such as a forward pass when everybody has clearly seen it? Absolutely unbelievable.'"
first of all, I simply pointed out refs in RL are poor in applying advantage.
secondly would you like a game where every single infringement is penalised? if so it would be a bloody awful game whatever the sport.
thirdly, I referee football. I have reffed league and premiership clubs. in football the laws are a guide. lots start " if in the referee's opinion". I wouldn't know how the RL ones are written but I suspect neither do you.
I would also argue no referee would ignore something as blatant as a forward pass. anyone who thinks they do is deluded.silverwood had a decent game on Friday. the two points I would take issue with is issueing a team warning the not following it up after a few high tackles.
also he could, and should, have waited to see where the ball ended up after Watkins flick. chelsea scored a great first goal today after a great advantage from the referee.
lastly this is a board for debate, if you have to resort to having pops and calling people idiots because you don't agree with them I suggest you grow up and get to bed. it's school tomorrow
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| Spot on Tad. I also think Silverwood had a decent game but not allowing Leeds advantage was very very poor as it could easily have changed the game (and in my opinion it probably did). He also needed to be a bit more contrite when explaining it to leeds players. Just saying "I'd blown the whistle" with a smile isn't good enough.
The Union refs are much better at that kind of thing in my opinion.
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Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif "As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
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This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif |
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| Anyone remember the "zero tolerance" experiment the RFL ran a few years ago? Think it was a game reffed by Karl Kirkpatrick.
Every single offence spotted was penalised. There were something like 20-odd penalties in the first half, and about ten in the second. By all accounts, a frustrating nightmare to watch and play in.
If you want to drive League to being much more like Union, then penalise every tiny infraction of the rules that you see.
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "Anyone remember the "zero tolerance" experiment the RFL ran a few years ago? Think it was a game reffed by Karl Kirkpatrick.
Every single offence spotted was penalised. There were something like 20-odd penalties in the first half, and about ten in the second. By all accounts, a frustrating nightmare to watch and play in.
If you want to drive League to being much more like Union, then penalise every tiny infraction of the rules that you see.'"
I remember a few years back when the season opened with the Magic weekend at Cardiff and Wakey played Cas with James Child as referee and he managed to award around 40 penalties in what wasn't even a dirty game. Think he had a few more games around that time when the penalty count in his games were really high, and most of the time for no apparent reason.
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "Anyone remember the "zero tolerance" experiment the RFL ran a few years ago? Think it was a game reffed by Karl Kirkpatrick.
Every single offence spotted was penalised. There were something like 20-odd penalties in the first half, and about ten in the second. By all accounts, a frustrating nightmare to watch and play in.
If you want to drive League to being much more like Union, then penalise every tiny infraction of the rules that you see.'"
That actually wasn't a bad year, as the experiment worked to a degree. After about 8 rounds, all clubs seriously cleaned up their act for rest of season. Certainly there is a lot more "professional" offences happening in recent years, as refs have shown more leniency.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "I remember a few years back when the season opened with the Magic weekend at Cardiff and Wakey played Cas with James Child as referee and he managed to award around 40 penalties in what wasn't even a dirty game. Think he had a few more games around that time when the penalty count in his games were really high, and most of the time for no apparent reason.'"
I always feel that James Child is trying to impress the referees boss with his repertoire of penalties (offside at the kick off,or striking in the scrum etc).Ultimately there's usually too many penalties in his matches which detracts from the spectacle.Not a fan of him at all,his matches seem to be the ones that are in danger of boiling over.
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"Leeds is the greatest club in Rugby League"
Alex Murphy 2011: |
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| Quote: tad rhino "first of all, I simply pointed out refs in RL are poor in applying advantage.
secondly would you like a game where every single infringement is penalised? if so it would be a bloody awful game whatever the sport.
thirdly, I referee football. I have reffed league and premiership clubs. in football the laws are a guide. lots start " if in the referee's opinion". I wouldn't know how the RL ones are written but I suspect neither do you.
I would also argue no referee would ignore something as blatant as a forward pass. anyone who thinks they do is deluded.silverwood had a decent game on Friday. the two points I would take issue with is issueing a team warning the not following it up after a few high tackles.
also he could, and should, have waited to see where the ball ended up after Watkins flick. chelsea scored a great first goal today after a great advantage from the referee.
lastly this is a board for debate, if you have to resort to having pops and calling people idiots because yn
Evening Tad, I think you may have to do some back tracking re the "idiot" issue, I was merely responding in kind to you calling me an idiot earlier in this debate. You may also have to do a bit of back tracking with your"deluded" jibe at me. If you hadn't noticed, video referees have been ordered to ignore any forward passes when a try is sent upstairs to them. They can penalise offside, obstruction, knock on, etc, etc etc, but have been told they must ignore the Rugby League law regarding a forward pass, so there you go. I am happy to debate with you on your terms Tad, call me an idiot, I'm more than happy to reciprocate, I"ll store my "deluded" jibe for use in a later debate ![Wink icon_wink.gif](images/smilies//icon_wink.gif)
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"Leeds is the greatest club in Rugby League"
Alex Murphy 2011: |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "Great, games with 100 penalties awarded throughout......I'd love to watch that.
Refs have to find the right balance between penalising stuff and trying to let the game flow.
You make it sound so very black and white. A ref warns a player about something "clearly then if he's done something wrong it's a penalty and he's cheated by not giving it!".......reffing a game isn't as simplistic as that and if the game was reffed how you're suggesting it should be it'd be an awful spectacle.'"
I don't think refs cheat all the time, but they do ignore clear infringements that should be penalised. I'm from the Rudolf Guiliani school of thinking, broken windows theory or "zero tolerance". Human beings by nature take advantage of any weakness, give then an inch, you know the rest. If it takes every offence to be punished in order to restore any semblance of compliance on the field, then so be it. Just how far do you think Dom Manfredi would have moved off the mark before Silverwood pinged him, he was already in the bar at the Bridge Inn at Kirkstall. It's human nature, let them move a yard forward, they'll want two, let them stand two yards offside, they'll want three. The reason why so many pages are spent debating ref issues is down to the RFL and the refs themselves. I watched a DVD of the '72 championship Final the other day, nobody lurching forward at the play the ball, nobody encroaching offside, nobody layed on top of a tackled player whilst turning round looking at the ref waiting for him to shout "moooove ", just players playing the game controlled by a ref without an agenda. The RFL and refs are weak people, we need a Guiliani in control to restore order. Nigel Wood is a man of straw.
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| Quote: leeds owl "Evening Tad, I think you may have to do some back tracking re the "idiot" issue, I was merely responding in kind to you calling me an idiot earlier in this debate. You may also have to do a bit of back tracking with your"deluded" jibe at me. If you hadn't noticed, video referees have been ordered to ignore any forward passes when a try is sent upstairs to them. They can penalise offside, obstruction, knock on, etc, etc etc, but have been told they must ignore the Rugby League law regarding a forward pass, so there you go. I am happy to debate with you on your terms Tad, call me an idiot, I'm more than happy to reciprocate, I"ll store my "deluded" jibe for use in a later debate
video refs have never been allowed to judge on forward passes due to camera angles
HTH
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Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif "As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://twitter.com/AndyGilder[/url:2cg5oc2o]
[url:2cg5oc2o]http://fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk[/url:2cg5oc2o]
This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC:Transparent Backgrounds/Waldorf.gif |
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| Quote: Dwayne Dibley "I always feel that James Child is trying to impress the referees boss with his repertoire of penalties (offside at the kick off,or striking in the scrum etc).Ultimately there's usually too many penalties in his matches which detracts from the spectacle.Not a fan of him at all,his matches seem to be the ones that are in danger of boiling over.'"
From limited experience of his refereeing, he came across as somewhat aloof, arrogant and incapable of working with the players to ensure a better game rather than being a stickler for detail. Not a great communicator in the way that say Ganson could be - when he wanted to.
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| I've just re-read Kev's 2003 diary and it's interesting because he talks about the officiating of Ganson and Silverwood. Nothing really seems to have changed in 12 years with Silverwood still giving highly questionable decisions against us.
There's always going to be room for interpretation and that adds somewhat to the sporting spectacle. But Kev said in 2003 that he worries that the standard of refereeing could drive fans away from the sport. Whilst I can't imagine people not buying a season ticket because of the officials, I've known of people not to attend certain matches because of who is taking charge.
Whilst mistakes will happen (we wouldn't want robots to officiate) there needs to be accountability for some of the glaringly bad calls. Until we have a strong pool of top refs, it won't happen. Its a real shame.
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| Quote: leeds owl "I don't think refs cheat all the time, but they do ignore clear infringements that should be penalised. I'm from the Rudolf Guiliani school of thinking, broken windows theory or "zero tolerance". '"
Although I'm sure you'd see less laying on at the ptb if James Child had armed police to do his bidding, I don't see the RFL adopting this approach any time soon
Then again, it would be a vast improvement on video refereeing.
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| Quote: leeds owl "I don't think refs cheat all the time, but they do ignore clear infringements that should be penalised. I'm from the Rudolf Guiliani school of thinking, broken windows theory or "zero tolerance". Human beings by nature take advantage of any weakness, give then an inch, you know the rest. If it takes every offence to be punished in order to restore any semblance of compliance on the field, then so be it. Just how far do you think Dom Manfredi would have moved off the mark before Silverwood pinged him, he was already in the bar at the Bridge Inn at Kirkstall. It's human nature, let them move a yard forward, they'll want two, let them stand two yards offside, they'll want three. The reason why so many pages are spent debating ref issues is down to the RFL and the refs themselves. I watched a DVD of the '72 championship Final the other day, nobody lurching forward at the play the ball, nobody encroaching offside, nobody layed on top of a tackled player whilst turning round looking at the ref waiting for him to shout "moooove ", just players playing the game controlled by a ref without an agenda. The RFL and refs are weak people, we need a Guiliani in control to restore order. Nigel Wood is a man of straw.'"
Are you for real or are you just trolling?
If you penalised every offence you would not have a game - you may have a point if they clamped down then maybe there would be a greater observance of the rules but that is no guarantee. To take your Guillani point, he clamped down on the mafia - did it actually make a difference - no one iota. The mafia was still as prevalent all he way through his time in charge they, were just cleverer and that is what the players will do they all adapt.
One thing that has changed since 1972 is the decrease in out an out thuggery that littered the game in those days. The bias of the likes of Robin Whitfield makes Silverwood look like a saint by comparison. Yes you may have more yes sir no sir in those days but the referees weren't better for being jumped up draconian school teachers. You are comparing part time players and a spped of game that was pedestrian by comparison to todays speed of play.
The idea the any referee cheats is not worthy of comment.
I trust your wife - if you have one - enjoys her days in the dungeon - you seem a very bull-like character ![Very Happy icon_biggrin.gif](images/smilies//icon_biggrin.gif)
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