Can anyone tell me the last time Maguire sinfield & burrow were rested or rotated is there a clique in the dressing room ?

Bailey was responsible for one of the few quality Leeds' moments last night. After Wilkin had committed his second high tackle in quick succession the big number sixteen, calmly held up two fingers to referee Thaler to make sure he'd noted what was going on and Thaler duly issued a gentle warning. Nice to see the new subtle approach from Bailey while Wilkin goes ballistic.

It says much about the Leeds performance that that was a highlight.

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Defence is a team game where individual hero attempts rarely work for long as opposition coaches wise up and good ball handlers deliver quick passes to leave the chargers looking stupid as they take neither man nor ball.

This is different to the collective quick line speed on goal-line defence which with higher energy levels being available has been fairly successful in minimising space and time on the ball this season. Those levels now appear to be draining somewhat not least IMO because the coach has little confidence to utilise the full squad he's been given - despite the CEO in pre-season claiming it to be the best he's ever assembled for Leeds.

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In the post match on field interviews - Burrow and McDermott showed the unity of the Headingley brains trust in full spin. One thought Leeds had taken their foot off the gas while the other thought they hadn't and accused people of using tired cliches when they've nothing else to say.

No doubt Burrow will be back on message this morning.

Who actually rests their half backs? What benefit would there be in this?

If other players are better in their positions (in the opinion of the people who actually pick the team) then by all means make changes. But I can't think of any benefits to squad rotation for its own sake in those positions and I don't think any team does it.

Tony Smith at Warrington appeared to take that approach with Briers at times last season to see and test out other options at half-back. He used to do things similar to that at Leeds such as playing Lauitiiti and Senior on the right during parts of games to see if they had that flexibility - giving the coach more options.

How do you know if a player is capable of taking on extra responsibility in the heat of battle without giving him the opportunity to do so? Having fulcrum players like Briers or Sinfield is great when they're on form but what happens when that form temporarily deserts them - you need contingencies and I'd have thought the best way to have them is to form and execute a plan to get there rather than taking the 'we'll cross that bridge if and when we get there' approach.

Kirke I thought stepped into the breach left by Peacock last night to a degree. Good minutes and good involvement but had Peacock been available Kirke would have probably been lucky to get one fifteen minute spell.

I am concerned at our slowness in getting the ball out wide,in Watkins and Moon we have two exciting strike players we should be giving them quality ball in space. Burrows running across the field usually ends up with a pass to a virtually stationary player. Looking at some of the passing moves across the line of Wigan has impressed me,probably Harris is behind it.
As I have said on several occasions the balance of the team is not right,I would get burrow back to scrum half ASAP.
We are still in a good position in the table, and a good team and coaches should always learn from their mistakes.
Certainly Hardaker should be reflecting on some of his errors.
I am surprised that Ryan Hall seems to receiving some adverse comments, he never had a decent pass all night, once again because we don't spin the ball out wide quickly he is not getting any quality ball.
I was pleased with the size of the crowd, especially after warringtons poor turn out for the hull game,over at wire they seem to be losing their appetite for the game. Lots of complaints about lack of atmosphere etc etc, its usually a good atmosphere at hq when a top team is in town. Step forward the southstanders and take a bow.

Oh I don't know. How he picked out the Leeds defenders on the full each time with his downfield kicks was a staggering achievement.

He's an outstanding second row forward, but poor scrum half. If we ever played Delaney or JJB at halfback, you'd have something to compare to.

Burrow was absolutely atrocious last night, I cannot understand the decision to drop McShane. Poor distribution (how many times did we get a short ball to the next man instead of spreading it wide), fewer tackles requiring Sinfield to do more work, which given we were without Ablett and Peacock was suicidal.

Hall now seems to be being used just as an extra second row rather than a winger, the number of carries backs are doing returning the ball is stupidly high. One time we had a set off a kick return of Vickery, Hall, Hardaker, Watkins & JJB followed by the kick. What's the point having the bloody forwards on the field if they won't take the ball up?

Also, it's time for Vickery to go. He's got no pace and nobody passes to him, so sides know that they can short-staff their left hand side as we're effectively a man short out there, allowing them to shut down Hall & Moon far more easily. Needs replacing with Duckworth or Chisholm, at least as an unknown quantity they'll attract defenders & the ball, which Vickery won't.

Side for Wigan:

1. Hardaker
27. Chisholm
3. Watkins
4. Moon
5. Hall
13. Sinfield
6. McGuire
8. Leuluai
9. McShane
10. Bailey
11. Jones-Buchanan
15. Delaney
18. Clarkson

7. Burrow
17. Kirke
19. Achurch
21. Moore

Wow. You noticed an obvious typo. Well done, I'm happy for you. If you work hard you can even reach Lawrie's level of noticing that some words are different to other words.

Are you being serious?

Think I watched a different game to a few people last night. I thought it was a really good game, I though for the large part we played pretty well, made some silly mistakes and gave away some silly penalties but we didn’t do too bad. I thought Sinfield was really good, lots of short little inside balls which made good metres, bar one kick which was an attempt at a low percentage play, he had an absolutely outstanding kicking game, Hall, Watkins, Moon did what was expected, didn’t stand out but weren’t poor, JJB was as dynamic as he always is and gave away a couple of stupid penalties as he always does. Delany played well but looked like he was in pieces.

No problem whatsoever with Hardakers first error, went for the big play, very nearly made it, I would have liked to hear Ganson’s explanation for that one, I would have seen it as grounded, tackle complete, knock-on by Hardaker and Laffranchi, a flop by laffranchi, all before I could see it as a try, but It’s not important in the scheme of things, and I would rather a young potential superstar like Hardaker continued to try the spectacular than for him to play it safe every time. We have won 6 championships in 9 years by never being afraid of trying something, lets continue that. The second error deserves a clip round the ear though. He bottled out of the challenge and let himself and his team-mates down.

Thought the refereeing left a little to be desired though, not putting any blame on him, or saying his decisions had a great effect on the game but I thought the ruck was a complete lottery with decisions seemingly made at random, and twice when saints were under pressure he stopped play and pretty much allowed the defence to rest, including one bizarre situation where leeds were 5th and last on the saints 10 with a quick PTB and he stops it for a good three or four minutes to allow Howarth to receive treatment and rejoin the defensive line. I think that needs to be looked at, otherwise id simply tell every tackler to lay down at the PTB when the opposition are near the line and wait for the delay and the defense to re-set. He also seemed to let a long time pass between a scrum being formed and it being put in without stopping the clock, including having a chat with the players a couple of times. As I say, not really a comment on the game or either teams performance but just some observations on the ref.

You put 11 players instead of 13

I'd rather have my word skills compared to your drumming skills

The speed of ball across the line is pretty poor, starting with the distribution from Dummy Half. Burrow's first thought, in general, appears to be to catch defence napping and so a good pass is often an after thought. This is then putting pressure on the first receiver and the problems increase as the ball changes hands down the line. With the outside backs we now have it is almost criminal how under used they were as we got beyond 20 minutes.
As for JJB flying out of the line, he has done this regularly for a few years, sometimes he shuts a play down, but it increasingly seems to lead to problems.

We seemed to lose our way last night and no amount of effort could refocus us. Perhaps working a back to basics message into the team for a few weeks might refocus the players. Get a hooker in position and lay the platform. I remember thinking how much time we had spent in the Saints 20 and didn't seem to have much of an idea how to break them down, resorting to scoots from dummy half or rushed miracle balls, instead of crisp moves like the one for Watkins try.