FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > World Club Challenge Official Thread |
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| Quote: William Eve "Sinfield would look ridiculous in a Melbourne shirt. I cannot imagine Craig Bellamy coaching a team built around Sinfield when they have genuine world class players like Smith and Cronk who are able to control the team and dictate play to a much higher standard.'"
I too can't imagine that Bellamy would build a team around Sinfield, but he would've still played much much better than Widdop did. Probably wouldn't have fluffed the conversion to the Harris try like Smith did that put his team under extra unnecessary pressure by not gving them a full score advantage and could've cost his team had Leeds got over near the end
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| William Eve,if Leeds ever played to perefection you would still be a Troll
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| Quote: ThePrinter "I too can't imagine that Bellamy would build a team around Sinfield, but he would've still played much much better than Widdop did.'"
He wouldn't get a spot in the Melbourne team because he isn't good enough. No world class coach would select a player so overbearing and demanding of control when there are far better players like Smith and Cronk available to do just that.
Quote: ThePrinter "Probably wouldn't have fluffed the conversion to the Harris try like Smith did that put his team under extra unnecessary pressure by not gving them a full score advantage and could've cost his team had Leeds got over near the end
It wasn't the first time that Sinfield displayed his inability to control and dictate games against Australian teams which lie outside his SL comfort zone and... unfortunately... it won't be the last.
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| One thing which struck me was how quiet the crowd were. Being a Nordstander this is not something I particularly care about but I thought the folks over on the other side prided themselves on getting behind the team? Trailing by only 4 points down for a chunk of the second half and yet it was virtually silent?
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| Quote: William Eve "Sinfield would look ridiculous in a Melbourne shirt. I cannot imagine Craig Bellamy coaching a team built around Sinfield when they have genuine world class players like Smith and Cronk who are able to control the team and dictate play to a much higher standard.'"
I'd really like to know how you can qualify this statement?
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| Quote: ThePrinter "It's not that coaches DON'T want Burrow to defend down the middle, it's because they know it would be bloody suicidal to do that. .'"
Disagree. Burrow has in the past defended down the middle and did it well and it was not suicide....remember he is a good tackler. However when he does this the opposition run at him to tire him out and to lessen his match winning abilities. I maintain the coaches have worked out a way to play Burrow at the breakdown for distribution and attack and out wide on defense thereby keeping a key man on the field for the full 80 so they do it for positive reasons and not negative ones.
Quote: ThePrinter "And I agree, McShane isn't a better player than Burrow but that doesn't mean he can't be brought on in place of him for 20 mins or so and offer something DIFFERENT, note the try Ablett scored in the GF set up by Lunt, that is something you're more likely to see from McShane than Burrow. .'"
I agree with you in principal and I am sure that could happen if McShane were to be relied upon to give that regular impact off the bench. As it is, the risk of not having Burrow on the field is too high because he is one of our main strike players. So when McShane comes on (and Lunt came on) it is usually for a back rower.
Quote: ThePrinter "And also how I wrote in another post, sometimes having them on together will work, but sometimes it won't. JJB could've been easily swapped with Clarkson instead. As you said 'they pick a pack full of tacklers'.....yes they do but then sub off a tackler for an extra hooker. And no McShane didn't cover himself in glory in defence but as was mentioned, he is asked to defend a different position to Burrow..'"
Agree with you re
Again I agree with you in principal. However you do want your best players on the park for the maximum time possible particularly the ones with the best rugby skills. We have several of the first choices who have great stamina and only need a short break if indeed any, so equal use of the subs is not a given in my view and I do not subcribe to the belief that you always have to use them all... as the state of the game and the form and fitness of those of the field at a point in time can overide the original game plan.
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| Quote: nantwichexile "I'm not throwing a brick....just making an observation that I felt should be commented on. He made mistakes this time. Are you suggesting the coach should be spared all criticism at all times because of past successes and glories?
The coach is responsible for the utilisation of his subs is he not? Do you think he used them wisely?
I ask you again what are these weak coaching decisions you speak of? Why does it always have to be the coaches fault if we lose?
I would have used the bench differently but that is not to say it would have changed the result.
We played the best side from the NRL who were ready and up for it. On the night the players made some errors and we were second best. Their line speed in defence (with occassional generous offside judgements from the ref) was impressive and our PLB´s too slow (We missed Bailey in this respect and didn't struggle enough to get up quickly) They marked out key players better than we did theirs. We fluffed 12 points and gifted them 6 maybe 12 points. Yet despite all this, and not being at our sharpest, the difference at the whistle was just 2 penalties that we chose not to take. I can live with that
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| Quote: William Eve "Sinfield would look ridiculous in a Melbourne shirt. I cannot imagine Craig Bellamy coaching a team built around Sinfield when they have genuine world class players like Smith and Cronk who are able to control the team and dictate play to a much higher standard.'"
Well Bellamy certainly built much of his game plan and pre match practice in targeting Sinfield. He even had a player wear a shirt with Sinfield's name on who was the main target for hits. On the night Kevin was dumped on his backside without the ball quite a few times as proof of their respect.
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "Disagree. McShane is a risk. He is just not consistent and is way behind Burrow in all aspects of the game. His poor tackling technique was a major reason for our loss IMO as it came at a crucial time and his reading of options is 50% at best. Yet you would have started him!'"
Interesting that you put Mcshanes tackling technique as a "major reason" for our loss yet dont mention Burrow bombing a "sitter" or his at times slow and low distribution from dummy half and dont even mention Achurch's involvement in the missed tackle or Watkins getting thrown off like a rag doll.
Mcshane has better passing from DH imo and could prove to be as good a 9 as Lunt given the chance his lack of consistemncy is as much about his lack of gametime as anything else and even in a sh## Widnes team he showed he can comfortably perform at SL level and influence games nowt wrong with being good for a lower team is there afterall you have a penchant for Cross.
I'm not in any way saying he is a better RL player than Burrow nor that he's gonna be the next Buderus but Burrow was having a poor game disttribution wise and also imo was poor at Cas and outplayed by Mcshane v Salford that's where i say starting spots should be earned.
As for reading the options when we were at cas Burrow consistently ran "blind" passed to players not even expecting the ball and imo had a mare Mcshane came on and got us going forward ripped cas at PTB and again passed much better.
Burrow is quality i'm not saying otherwise just that on form i think Mcshane should have had more gametime at 9.
Now again i dont need a run down on Burrows merits or his outstanding achievements i'm talking current form here and now nor do i think Burrow should be ditched but he's not been that good at 9 thus far an BOTH his AND Mcshanes errors on friday played a pivotel role in costing us the game.
G1-RE-The Burrow comments. Has he been top notch in your opinion and should his undoubted quality and past achievements make him exempt any kind of criticism when not at his best??
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| I wouldn't bother entertaining his comments, they are ridiculous.
To criticise Mcshane on Friday and making an attempt to excuse Burrow is bewildering.
It wasn't just the bombed try, lot's of players that happens with every week. The problem was that wasn't his only handling error. His distribution from dummy half was shocking, his continuous attempts to run for himself rather than his team mates yet the Melbourne defence had him in their pocket.
Burrow has been poor in 3 out of 4 games so far this season, 2 of those games worse than any other performances he has put in, in his leeds career. To ignore that is just naive, he is not excusable from criticism.
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| Quote: William Eve "He wouldn't get a spot in the Melbourne team because he isn't good enough. No world class coach would select a player so overbearing and demanding of control when there are far better players like Smith and Cronk available to do just that.
It wasn't the first time that Sinfield displayed his inability to control and dictate games against Australian teams which lie outside his SL comfort zone and... unfortunately... it won't be the last.'"
Leeds vs Melbourne = Man of the Match
2008 - Kevin Sinfield
2010 - Cameron Smith
2013 - Cooper Cronk
Oh
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| Quote: Juan Cornetto "Disagree. Burrow has in the past defended down the middle and did it well and it was not suicide....remember he is a good tackler.'"
Agreed Burrow is a good tackler but when has he been tasked with defending down the middle?
Quote: Juan Cornetto " However when he does this the opposition run at him to tire him out and to lessen his match winning abilities. I maintain the coaches have worked out a way to play Burrow at the breakdown for distribution and attack and out wide on defense thereby keeping a key man on the field for the full 80 so they do it for positive reasons and not negative ones.'"
Leeds - like most teams - defend with their starting half-backs out wide, one on either side inbetween centre and wing. Leeds - like no other team I've ever seen (including Leeds prior to 2012) also defend their regular starting hooker out wide. It's a positive to have your game-breakers on the field as much as possible but it can also be a negative if it places additional defensive duties on tired over-worked forwards.
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| Quote: tvoc "Agreed Burrow is a good tackler but when has he been tasked with defending down the middle?
Leeds - like most teams - defend with their starting half-backs out wide, one on either side inbetween centre and wing. Leeds - like no other team I've ever seen (including Leeds prior to 2012) also defend their regular starting hooker out wide. It's a positive to have your game-breakers on the field as much as possible but it can also be a negative if it places additional defensive duties on tired over-worked forwards.'"
Under different coaches Burrow has played at 9 and I remember he did defend down the middle quite well but as I said the opposition forwards targeted him to slow him up.
You have overlooked one important point. Leeds - have achieved remarkable success with the policy of playing our regular starting hooker out wide like no other team. I do not agree with your inference that this means we have tired overworked forwards. You overlook the fact that in keeping Burrow fresh to attack it allows him to make some of the metres that the forwards would otherwise have had make let alone putting on match winning plays and most importantly it keeps him on the field for the full 80. This tactic has been proven to work very very well.
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| How good was JP? Awesome.
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| Anyone worked out the value in playing Clarkson for just the final 10 minutes. He has been on a good run, return to form etc. I'd have used him more. Especially seeing as our forwards on the whole looked a little 'leggy'.
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