Honestly, how can a great team go from heroes to zeros ? Overnight metaphorically speaking.

I know 3 very good players have retired, but i think too much is being read into that. At the end of the Grand Final you had arguably 16 truly outstanding players.(not including young Walters).
McGuire had just won the Harry Sunderland trophy as much for his organisation and leadership as his 2 tries. Adan Cuthbertson had been the stand out prop all season for his amazing ball handling as well as his grunt. I would have been equally if not more concerned if it had been Moon, Watkins and Man of Steel Hardaker who were leaving the club, or Briscoe, Cuthbertson, McGuire.

In comparison, since that same Grand Final, Wigan have also lost Matty Bowen, Joe Burgess, Larne Patrick, additionally Mcilorum has hardly kicked a ball, neither has Bowens replacement Sam Tomkins, and their own talisman, injury plagued O'loughlin is out of the side as much as he's in it these days. Those key 6 players are arguably as influential as the loss of the Leeds golden 3. But Wigan are still doing it, how's that then ???

Leeds should have had enough class all over the park to cover for the 3 losses. The choppy waters of this transition period should have seen the vast winning experience of JJB, Ablett, McGuire, and Burrows guide the team through this period. Internationals Hall, Watkins, Ferres and Briscoe should have fitted easily into "bigger boots" The class of Moon should have reached a new level, Cuthbertson and Delaney had the chance to become leaders.
The truth is no-one has delivered, players or coaching staff. The ready made excuse was always there and quite a cosy place to hide behind. and indeed they have.

Many teams this season could argue they have been hit with even greater losses of personnel than Leeds, yet the likes of Wakefield and Huddersfield, Wigan et al have dealt with it, they've not had a ready made excuse, apart from plain bad luck, and yet all these sides and more have shown Leeds the way to play in adversity.
Some bad decisions have to be owned up to. The Aichurch and Garbutt projects are proving to be just that, projects. Kangaroo and Origin veteran Galloway is either proving to all he is just a veteran or he has come for his pay check. His best days look well behind him at the mo.

Maybe Hetherington should be asking himself why on earth he didn't stagger the leaving of Peacock and Sinfield. Kev was still playing well in 2015 and could have easily gone round again for the good of the club, if he had been cajoled and sweet talked for the good of the club he loves.
But all that is History now. It is simply time for this gifted squad to man up, grow a pair, stop blaming bad weather and retirements of seasoned players AND GET ON WITH IT !!! The fans are owed that much.

With the exception of Garbutt, who I believe merits some perseverance, I can't really argue with any of that.

Yeah they sing and clap.....so does the cast of Glee.

The cast of glee get paid to sing and clap - the way Leeds are playing GH should be paying us to sing and clap

Dear all the point I was trying to make in my post about Peter Smith’s reporting of Fridays match and the fans deserving better was not so much that we do deserve better - we have had it pretty good. If I was a fan of the London team with ground changes, changes of name, losing all our better players over the years I might feel that I deserved better (although I would be quite happy at the moment) – the point is that his report suggests a growing level of frustration and exasperation with things. The fact that its like ground hog day hints of better things then seemingly no carry through and progress. Local sports reporters don’t tend to go out on a limb – invite criticism and pressure from readers that could jeopardise sales. I think the points he makes reflect a growing general loss of belief in things getting better.

GH has not said much about the current situation .

I too agree with all ...including your point regards Garbutt. Personally I can't understand the criticism he is getting from some quarters. Falloon and Galloway..yes, but Garbutt has earned his stripes IMO.

As for Achurch...WTF??? We all thought Kirke was stealing a wage....this guy has unquestioningly usurped his fellow gym owner in that respect. They must both have some tasty incriminating photos

Well after a period of going forwards Leeds, like your car, are now going backwards just as you expect your car to be able to do . and when they get most of the injured players back will once more go forward again. Your car will struggle to go if it is not firing on all cylinders and neither will Leeds with half the engine missing a couple of flat tyres.

I do not understand why in a salary capped sport some supporters expect permanent ongoing success and have so little patience when there are obvious reasons when this cannot be. With the ending of our long period of success with our golden generation generation retiring or past their best the transition period was always going to be difficult. If you add to that a really serious injury crisis with up to 10 first choices unavailable each week for the first half season plus having their training facilities totally destroyed then I would say you have a unique set of circumstances that deserve some tolerance.

Most of those critics having so much negative stuff to say this season did not call for a replacement for Sinfield and were happy to go with youth based on a few good games. So these self proclaimed experts hardly have much to boast about themselves especially those that have been wrong in their assessment of young Lilley, Golding and I would say Mullally too.

The loss of Sinfield and JP has exposed a serious the lack of leadership in the squad and also perhaps a lack of quality too with some players who looked to have class when playing in a successful winning side and having someone think for them but in reality lack the skills required to step up when the chips are down.

IMO we have to recruit a game manager to direct the team around the park and to take the pressure off Lilley and allow him to develop. We also need a decent hooker and pack leader and IMO a bigger squad with more pace. I would be looking to offload some players irrespective of reputation.

Whils that would've been better I don't think you can realistically manage that. What do you do, ask Peacock to retire in 2014 to avoid a clash? Ask Sinfield to play on in 2016? Think we'd all agree they earned the right to bow out when they wanted and not be forced to go a year earlier or stay a year longer than they wanted.

Personally think Sinfield felt his body wasn't up for another full season of RL so would be tough to convince him to stay for 2016 and I don't think he wanted to stand in the way of young players like Sutcliffe getting the chance (regardless of whether people think he's the answer at HB or not)

Recruitment will also require players to leave. Falloon might be like-for-like in terms of pay, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was signed on the cheap, as he had no other real options for this year. I'd imagine that the plan was for Ferres to get a pay rise using some of Achurch's salary. However that might not be the wisest spend.

Quite seriously some of our play has been appalling. Defensively we are simply not tackling as a unit at all. There were a couple of Hudds breaks where the player was tackled and half our team just ambled back into the line - early in the first half. That's not down to not controlling the ruck or being knackered, its down to lack of urgency. Other times a simple pass inside let Hudds run through a massive gap. That's down to lazy inside defenders not closing gaps, not some super attacking play.

Its those sorts of examples which keep recurring which make me think the team is now definitely not responding to BM. Some players may be, but a lot are going through the motions IMO.

Rubbish!! Carnegie didn't get sorted by January. They train at West Park, but that was only sorted recently. They don't even have a regular gym.

We are missing Briscoe, Moon, Hall, McGuire, Ablett and Ward. Plus Cuthbertson is just on his way back. I make that 7. Then add Delaney and Falloon to that list.

We are bottom of the league for a couple of reasons. Injuries and no leadership.

This is pretty much one hundred percent how I feel. I think the buck stops with McDermott and he needs to step down. I manage a large team at work and if they fail to perform I'm the one who is ultimately responsible. I love what he has done( with some BIG help. ) to our club but I think we need to change. I'm not a glory seeker, I've seen lean times but when performance, desire and general appetite has gone we have to change.

Lack of desire, lack of effort? What games are you people watching? There are monumental efforts going on right across our team. Maybe not directed in the right way I'll grant but lack of effort is just a child-like reaction to the current situation.
The players are knackered, that's why they're missing tackles or not pushing up or not making it back in defence.

Why are they knackered? They had a hugely disrupted pre-season and half of them are injured.
No doubt someone will come along and say "that's no reason for such poor performances". Well, yes it sodding well is. And they're much more plausible reasons for what we're seeing than either the players don't care anymore, they're rubbish or the coach is rubbish. Which, again, are child-like responses and not thought out to any degree.