I can quite easily see why many are saying knock on. But set in the context of what regularly gets judged flat or backwards when the ball is passed cleanly no-one should be surprised that the try was given.

That would be a fair comparison to make if Hardaker was passing the ball. I don't believe he was and I'm not sure anyone else has so far in the discussion although there is still time.

If a referee/video referee cannot distinguish between a pass and a knock on then I think the game has a serious issue to address.
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I could have come up with any number of examples but settled for the Wither's one as it is probably the most infamous knock on call of the SL Era - one that arguably altered the course of a Grand Final. IIRC that 'no try' decision by video referee Dave Campbell (ex St Helens was he?) centred on whether the flight of the ball was altered by the slightest of touches - I believe Withers still claims he didn't touch it by the way.

Hardaker was moving towards the Castleford try line. The pass from Webb was legal, it was travelling backwards, unlike the Wither's example the trajectory of the ball was significantly altered by Hardaker's intervention. From that moment the only thing that could prevent it becoming a knock on was for Hardaker to catch the ball cleanly before it hit the ground. Even had the ball gone directly to Hall who caught it on the full (without Hardaker's touch being classified as a pass - is anyone seriously suggesting this) it would still be classified as a knock on by Hardaker.

If people don't like that interpretation then they will be pulling what's left of their hair out most weeks as these type of scenarios are invariable and correctly called back for knock ons and I have to say have been as far as I recall throughout my time watching the sport.



I could be wrong but I don't think Kirkpatrick gave up refereeing because of work commitments as such, rather it was because the RFL were then insisting on referees becoming full-time to the exclusion of their career outside the sport. Ironically they now allow/allowed Child to continue a career outside the game when they found recruitment and progression was being stifled by the strict adherance to a full-time only policy.

I hope Hardaker is awarded with the assist.

Surely the 'knock on v not knock on' should be put to one side, and the -poor tackling attempts of Slim Griff and Orr (IIRC) should be heavily considered as the reason why that try was allowed to be scored.

He did so with plenty of conviction. he shouted, clearly audible on the commentary, "that's OK", twice. The try had no business being scored once in Hall's hands but the defence was lousy and Hall is the "WBW".

There was plenty of conviction. Sending it upstairs to have his conviction confirmed is just good common sense when the technology is there.


So, we cannot interpret the intention of players dropping on opponents with elbows but we can interpret the intentions of players propelling the ball towards team mates? Interesting how your powers of interpretation fade in and out depending upon what you're arguing. Want a job?

Surely only if the ball goes forwards. I didn't see a camera angle that sufficiently answered that question

There were angles that showed the ball deviate from Hardaker's outstretched hand in the same direction as he was moving ie towards the Castleford line.

The ball only need go forward from the contact with Hardaker for it to be ruled a knock on. Often the ball will continue on it's overall backward path, fall to ground behind the player making contact (who has moved ahead of it) and still quite correctly be ruled a knock on.

In this respect knock ons are quite different from forward passes where the momentum of a player has a role to play.

Re-read my post. I never claimed he was trying to pass it. The point I made was that refs frequently let forward passes go. Why expect different for a ball that's knocked forward by a much smaller margin?

Would you also say the opposite is true then? a player touches the ball legally travelling forward imparting a lesser force than already acting on the ball resulting the ball travelling forward isnt a knock on?

I know you didn't. I said no-one has yet introduced that as a possible explanation, it's the only explanation I could think of for justifying the try be allowed to stand. I don't think referee's let forward passes go but I agree they miss quite a few although not as many as fans seem to perceive.

Where I am particularly disappointed over this instance is the decision coming from a video referee with multiply replays from multiply angles at his disposal.
In live play it could have been missed or allowed to go as a 50/50 call these things happen but I thought the video referee got it wrong and I'm less forgiving in those circumstances.

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No. That still sounds like a knock on. The relevant part is the direction the ball takes from the point the player touches it. If that direction is towards the opponents try line then it's a knock on.

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While discussing hypotheticals, if on Friday the ball had brushed Hardaker's fingertips without any discernible change of direction or flight it would not have been a knock-on.

Ah,with you now. Agree 100%. Video refs coming up with errors is pretty unforgiveable.

but as you said, the ball went backwards just less backwards than it would otherwise have gone.

It has to be an either/or situation, either the knock on is judged on the direction the ball travels regardless of the force imparted on it by the player or it is judged on the direction of the force imparted on it regardless of the direction it travels.

Correct, less backwards than it otherwise would have done without Hardaker knocking it forwards. I believe it's all there in the quote you've highlighted.

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The ball went forwards from Hardaker's touch in relation to the point the contact was made. The initial point of contact had Hardaker roughly 21 metres from the Castleford try-line as he travelled towards it. The ball after the deflection landed closer to the 20 metre line than the point Hardaker touched it.

The ball went forwards off Hardaker's hand, it was a knock on.