You can't excuse it. But BMc has nothing to do with Ali knocking on from the kick off does he?! That isn't 'Bad Coaching'. Nor is the poor completion rate, or error rate.

(This isn't singled out at you NE, I know you've said nothing specific against BMc, that I've read anyway).

It's not unwavering optimism, it's just that I believe my job as a SUPPORTER is to SUPPORT my team, not abandon them at a time when they most need the support. Everybody is quick to criticise Kirke (etc.) for 'not doing his job properly' but IMO the people constantly criticising, berating, and moaning about their team are just as much at fault for 'not doing their job properly' as the people they're moaning about are.

That's just the way I believe it should be. I'm not asking anybody else to subscribe to that.

I do, and I also find it somewhat ironic that you and I particularly are discussing the merits of performance and results on a thread titled "There's JUST about enough...."

All top performers make it look effortless

Agreed. I think having only 2 props has a greater effect on a team than missing 2 or 3 in the back line...

How did Lee Smith do for you this week?




And that was in a training session V an under 11's team from St Winifreds.

Same as always tvoc, average.

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but Leeds currently have the third worst defence in SL. Sort that out and we will be in a much better position! Easier said than done though.

Using the same stats... we also have the best attack!

I think we should not panic and be so quick to judge this early in the season. We have a new coach, some new players to fit in, some key players on long the long term injury list. Also we should not forget that we had a disappointing season last year with a lot of one up rugby with little flair. In fact it was the flair of McGuire that kept us from being a middle of the table side.

IMO this season our main problems are too many errors and missed tackles and several below par individual performances. To blame a change in playing style is too simplistic. Knocking on, losing the ball in the tackle are nothing to do with the style of play they are basic individual errors.

The best recent rugby we have played was a couple of seasons ago when we had a good offload game. We would not have beaten Bradford had we not had a go with some flair and some of the tries against Hull and Warrington would not have been scored either.

We need to sort out our marker and try line defence. We need to have some back row cover for our centres, particularly the hand right side. We should be playing Clarkson for longer and Ali as an impact player. We should drop Kirke and give a youngster a go.

Meanwhile keep attacking with flair and a bit more skill.

It is simplistic to pin point the style play for the whole problem but, it is a large factor none the less. This year we have been playing a very tight off the shoulder passing game, with plays made very close to the defensive line. However, the problem with that style of play is that timing has to be perfect and on Saturday we lost possession on several occassions because the passes were a fraction of a second too late. If we can rectify those slight errors in execution, we will improve greatly. In short, I can see what they are trying to do but, they are yet to be wholly successful in doing it.

My impression on Saturday was that we had made enough breaks to win the game and demonstrated that we could beat them, if our defensive game was up to scratch. The stats seem to suggest that impression was right. However, as things stabnd is our defence is terrible. O'Meley's two tries plus a dive from dummy half and simple step inside on Saturday suggest that our work around the ruck, ability to dominate the tackle and line speed are poor. In my view, the coaching shows up when a team doesn't have the ball.

Things have a Dean Lance feel about them.

Still, it is early days and I see little point in sacking McD right now.

I don't think anyone is actually calling for BMD to go, moreover they are expressing some concerns regarding the style of play. If we continue to play this way, where every ball is a try scorer for one team or the other, it's going to be heart attack stuff all the way this year. We need to temper our style a bit and play the footie when we have built the platform to do it from.

It's going to have to get a lot worse for me to call for the coach's head part way through the season.

McDermott isn't the problem for me - what we are seeing now is no different from what we saw last season. Unfortunately the side doesn't have McGuire to get them out of the crap each week. This is a side in need of some major surgery - too many over the hill/journeyman players.

Having Lowes as the assistant is also a mistake for me - great player but a failed coach should not be anywhere near a group of pro players.

That would make him one of Leeds' better performers on Saturday then.

I agree, it's difficult not to like him.

Just a small point, but I'd argue that things like dropping the ball from the kick off are actually symptomatic of a lack of intensity if they happen often enough - just as much as individual missed tackles or dropped passes. The impression I get is that Leeds have a disturbing lack of both intensity and structure at the moment - something they showed at times last year as well.