The pack got mullered as a group for most of the game. Without a Peacock leading from the trenches we can see just how ordinary most of our forwards are. Individually they are all OK, but as a group really not good enough. I personally quite like the Myler and Dwyer signings for next year as they point to a real change in direction, but IMO we need to start freshening up the pack pronto.

What we are absolutely screaming out for is a tackle-breaking forward - ideally two. Ferres could have played that role to a degree, but given the shape he's in I can't see it. Delaney is shot, Ablett has been really poor for several years IMO, Cuthbertson's offloads are non-existent in big games and the rest are grafters at best. We need forwards who do some damage with and without the ball.

Anyway, on the whole I'd say this season hasn't been disappointing and won't be even if we end up 4th or worse. IMO its realistically about where our team is at, and its actually not a bad place to build from. I still think we could have started the process earlier, but hey ho.

For all the slating of the teams ability this is still a side and coach who had an 8-0 record against Hull & Radford prior to Saturday so can't all be too bad, even when we were dreadful last year we did the double over Hull and they were the only team not to beat us in an awful season for us....before anyone says meaningful games Hull could've won the LLS if they got past us in 2016.

I think more credit has to be given to Hull, they've got a confidence in the cup that can't be denied. Us, Cas, Wigan, Wire and Saints have all been beaten in the last 18 months. Sometimes a team find a groove, Wire in the cup 2009-2013 and us at Old Trafford for nearly a decade.

Like mentioned earlier we had an 8-0 streak against Hull, we have a similar record vs Cas but in the negative column, would finally snapping that record in the playoffs call for the head of Powell, Gale and Co?

Last year was a freak due to the floods no matter how much anyone mocks as clearly shown by our 2nd place now. Let's be realistic dropping back into the pack was always likely after Leeds lost such special players.....(players which certain fans said should go at the end of 2013 & 2014 and thus not lead us to a treble btw although they'll deny it)

Does the club always make the right decision on recruitment and retention? No, no club does but it hasn't done too bad now has it and let's not pretend that most of the keyboard CEO's on here would've made poor calls wrt to ditching older players pre 2015 treble.

Honestly it's not "always sticking up for the club" it's just st giving them enough credit because they have deliver more success than we could've dreamt of.

I'm not an apologist, I just realise (maybe because I work with several Wakey fans) that I'm so fortunate to have Leeds ced through our clubs greatest era.....most fans don't get to experience that. I hear Hudds fans talk about winning all the trophies 100 years ago even though they weren't born for 50 years later. Guys my age born in the mid 80's saying how the likes of Billy Bremner or Norman Hunter are their favourite ever United players even those that they never got the chance to see them live and experience their success live at the time.

This club isn't perfect, it's doesn't get every decision right.......but by god it's given us more memories in that the last 15 years than most other sports fans will get in a lifetime even if they're lucky enough to follow for 80/80 years.

I'm not saying don't be critical of poor showings, but when it gets to slander and unfounded accusations and muck slinging about them just because they don't run the club how you'd like them it's too far.

They've given us enough good times to deserve more respect than they're getting.

On the one hand, you're right, some posters on here were beefing about the club in 2003 for christ sake, and they haven't changed the record much since. I am grateful for the club have achieved and to everyone who has played a part in that, including BM. However, it seems clear to me that we do not have the resources in hand or, due to constraints arising from the ground redevelopment, the financial ability to readily change that situation. What we can do, for a less significant investment, is get a new coach who can make the best of what we have.

For some time now, there have been significant deficiencies in our attack and defence. Until we manage or resolve these problems, getting spanked in big games is going to be a regular occurrence. Personally, I don't mind losing, as long as we were not embarrassed. I have seen some posts suggesting that we could get to OT and, quite frankly, I'd rather not get there, if we are going to get fifty put past us by Castleford.

Given some clues in this & previous posts, I would guess that our ages are not too far apart. I too am extremely grateful & relieved for the decade of success that we have achieved after witnessing decades of mediocrity & disappointment & looking on with envy at the Wigan, Widnes etc "golden years".

But this is a message board for goodness' sake! The rubbish I have highlighted you can only be directing towards one or two (literally) individuals at best. Comments about CEO, coach & players are posted because that is what people believe. We are all supporters who desperately want the good times to keep on coming (even though we realise that they are not going to be quite so prolific as 2004-2015).

You & others see (I assume) BMD as the continued answer to our coaching position. I & others do not. One or two people perhaps post a little colourfully in their frustration with the managed decline they are witnessing, but most give reasoned arguments for a change in coaching direction (or, indeed, where recruitment is failing, or players' failings).

Just because we have had a decade of success does not mean that we should all sit meekly & accept whatever the club might do!

You criticise, berate & call for the dropping/sacking-off of players. Why is this not OK with coaching staff/management?

I agree its not as black and white as many suggest. I think BM doesn't receive enough credit for 2011-2015 (just as Tony Smith wasn't for 2004). On the counter, I think some accept way too easily the excuse-fest that was 2016. I also think that last year should have led to more of a shake up in squad players, particularly some of the dead wood in the forwards. However, how much of that is down to GH or cap constraints I don't know.

I've said elsewhere, given the squad we have this year I think we're about where we should be even if we don't trouble the scorers in the play offs. That's not what we should be aiming for, but its probably a realistic assessment of the squad.

What I want to see starting next year is the squad making genuine strides in the quality of rugby played, and a sense of moving back towards being in genuine contention. If a club the size of Leeds can't do that over a three year period (2016 to 201icon_cool.gif, then that's really poor.

This ^

Good post Brisbane.

What is increasingly apparent when you look at Leeds and Hull is that Hull are on the "up". Results may have gone Leeds way when they went head to head up until recently but Hull have begun to win trophies and perform in big games. Leeds have gone the other way.

Some people may have been premature in calling time on the old guard but I don't think it's premature any longer.

You wouldn't think that if you saw several contributions made towards the end of the 2014 season. They were either wrong then or wrong since - not sure which tack they'll take but knowing them it'll be both.

This is the biggest job McDermott will have in the game - no other contender club will touch him, IMO. Well on the way to returning the club to it's former status - mid table mediocrity. The McDermott legacy.

It could then take the new coach 3,4 or 5 years to rebuild the team.

Its not so much the team in terms of individuals but the culture. We ought to have a culture that doesn't accept mediocrity and second best. We won't win something every year, but the team should be aiming to win and believing it has the ability to do so.

Who says that the current team don't think like that?

What did McDermott say after the big defeat at Castleford? he said he still believed they could win the grand final, something that he was mocked for saying. It's not actually that unrealistic now is it.

At the start of the year McDermott said we were aiming for the treble. After the cas thrashing he said we could still win the grand final. He was derided for both, but is that not aiming high and believing in your own ability?

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I believe the person you quoted said "team". He said nothing about individual people.

So 2 of three objectives have gone out of the window - so does that suggest the start of the year objectives were unrealistic?

Surely the objective of any season is for the team to play to its potential and if that delivers success that's great if not so be it.

Fans surely cannot ask anymore - Leeds have only played to their true potential once this season IMO - Warrington at home - that suggests the coaching staff have plenty of scope for improvement

I suspect you didn't attend the game at Salford. From my viewpoint that performance was better than the one against Warrington.

I didn't I was on vacation