You know exactly what I'm suggesting, but I doubt it's worth the time engaging with you further on it.

Quite allot of finger pointing on here after the game and that’s what this place is for but nobody has really picked up why we lost the game. Zak Hardaker had a nightmare – two of the tries were 100% down to him and that cost us 12 points (not sure if all the conversions were made).
Also fans favourite Kallum Watkins wasn’t really up to much. The break from Percival - Watkins was just behind him and had every chance to make the tackle but was either lazy or blowing too much to make the effort. Although Vickery was ok he didn’t really put the foot down to catch him either unless he clearly cannot put his foot down faster than Ablett.

Agree with this and the rest of your appraisal of last night's match.

Not watched the game back yet but on a couple of occasions when we were defending our try-line JJB seemed to fly out of the line, miss the tackle and leave a yawning gap.

It happens all the time, other matches this season and matches last season also. Saints actually targetted it yesterday, you could see it clearly.

On a slightly seperate note, does anybody think we really missed a trick by not managing to sign Alex Walmsley?

Why? He wouldn't have got a game.

I don't know if walmsley was ever on our wanted list but he looked impressive last night, as Amor has done in previous games at Headingley.

He was, I think most SL clubs wanted him, and to me he's on another level to Amor.

He could be anything. An absolute monster of a player and should only get better.

Hard being a rugby player. JJB was one of our better players on the night and he was at fault for the 2 soft scores in the 1st half IIRC.

Worked overtime in defence didn't he? Putting some big hits on, forcing errors and winning a penalty. Or we could just not acknowledge that?

Leeds looked better with Kylie and Bails doing the business down the middle, the replacements couldn't maintain the momentum that was set. Having said that Saints helped themselves by taking the God awful Perry off and they brought on a bit of talent!

JC-When have the "rotationalists" suggested JP miss games against ST's then?
No can't remember or more to the point it clearly never happened!
The point those of us (The Coach and Skipper included pre-season) was that there should be more rotation and when mentioning specific games we suggested teams ,like Salford ,Broncos and Cas (CC).
So lets not get into another pointless "they said i said told you so" BS match.
As for last night i don't for 1 minute see how Vickery could be blamed but watching another u19 game (we lost 24-26) he has nothing that Duckworth ,Handley ,Sunley or even Watson dont have.
Hardaker ,Sinfield ,Mcguire Watkins(defensively) Jjb(defence) had mares imo.
Far too often our pack received awful hospital passes from ALL 3 HB's and our shape with and without the ball was awful.
Back to the Makinson try debate i thought Watkins had Percival lined up and Hardaker could have pointed he'd take the support runner making the call easy for Watkins to try and take Percival we see many seasoned FB's do this and it normally works.
I thought Achurch and Moore offered little but again had a lack of decent ball and game-time and why bring Sutcliffe on and have him running it in on the 1st or 2nd tackle??
Our centres got 2 decent passes and scored but then nothing!!
ST's deserved their win they ran much harder and tackled well in the 2nd half but we look like we could possibly about to hit another form loss.

I can't understand why Vickery is being singled out for so much flak (apart from the usual suspects who like their scapegoats). The long distance try was as much the fault of Watkins who left it far too late to commit to his opposite number despite having the pace that Vickery lacks. Vickery's performance had a minimal bearing on the result - unlike the two tries Hardaker let in. That was pretty much the worst game I've seen Hardaker play for Leeds. Ryan Hall was also less effective than Vickery carting the ball in and similarly did nothing in attack, despite his lauded combination with Moon. We should be far more worried about Hall's form than what a make-shift winger does. Would BJB won us the game? Probably not.

As has been pointed out McGuire and Sinfield were poor again, and Burrow wasn't much better. JJB did some eye-catching stuff going forward but his defensive mis-reads cost us two tries close to the line IIRC. Most importantly our goal-line defence and discipline were shocking at times.

On a positive note Delaney was immense. I just hope his injury problems haven't been made worse by flogging him like this. Good to see Bailey step up for a change and mostly keep his discipline. When he left the field it all went to pot.

Thank god Wilkin doesn't play for us - how embarrassing for England if this guy gets selected. A poor man's Kevin Sinfield if ever there was one. That said, a shame the real Kevin Sinfield didn't stand up last night.