I actually said behind Ward and Ablett, but if you compare to Ablett who I think has been poor defensively it kind of tells a different story. Ablett has played 31 super league games and made 772 tackles (average 25 per match), and missed 71 tackles (8.43% of the tackles he attempts). Westerman has played 22 Super League games and made 696 tackles (average 32 per match) and missed 41 tackles (5.5% of the tackles he attempts). Certainly a more impressive defensive effort than Ablett this year.

Compare to a good defender in Delaney who has played 21 super league games and made 573 tackles (average 27 per match), and missed 43 tackles (6.98% of the tackles he attempts).

I know that early season game against Hull, Westerman was poor defensively, but the cup game which isn't included in those stats above he made 50 tackles in the match and one miss. Those are not the stats of someone who can not defend. Still doesn't mean we should be signing like, but just stating the position.

I'm with Gotcha on this one. (Nice to see you having a regard for stats Gotcha )

Westerman had a lot of promise at Cas and I took a look at his stats for 2014 where he was 3rd highest tackler with 916 3rd highest number of carries with 488 (only JP and Roby ahead of him and he was in front of Chris Hill) He also had reasonable stats for Busts, Metres and 41 Offloads (8th. only Leeds player above him was JP with 49)

So it doesn't look like a lack of ability/technique/workrate and so more likely his drop in form is down to motivation/fitness and if so we have the coach to solve that problem. With Achurch on his way and injury doubts over JJB and Delaney it could be a prudent signing if not too expensive. Under the new structure we need strength in depth.

Can't say as I'm fussed about Westerman but I recognise he has some potential/talent. I'd rather we put the effort into developing in house personally if at all possible.

I know, which I why I said I prefer Delaney and keinhorst as they are, presumably, the second rowers behind Ward and Ablett.


There's no comparison. He's not fit to lace Ablett's boots, even on what has been a down year for Ablett.

That is based upon the eye test. I'm not interested in statistics.

I'm sure he has upside and potential, I just don't see that we need to be the ones to help him possibly try and achieve it. If the rumours are true and we do sign him I hope that is exactly what we do but I'm not keen at all.

He would be an improvement on what we have, that is true. I just have doubts about his mentality. I've never seen him perform well in an important, intense game.

Hetherington signs players who are decent people. Westerman is an idiot. Unprofessional, LOVES a drinks, hangs round on street corners with his mates Richard Owen and co in their Range Rovers in Ferry Fryston. Source? I've seen it!

coach at cas told me he was brilliant and had the world at his feet "but then met that c*nt chase". his exact words.


I think with a professional club and better players he will thrive

Balls to it, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say I'd be delighted for us to sign a genuine loose forward who runs, passes and can kick just like Westerman. I hate seeing props play at 13 because coaches don't trust the impact of their 8 & 10 and in Galloway, Cuthbertson, Garbutt and Singleton/Baldwinson were alright for props. If Westerman doesn't come then I can live with JJB, Ablett and Delaney in the second row/sub and Ward at 13. I think it's a bit strange that a few are very critical of Westermans social habits and yet no mention of the sort of behaviour that has resulted in Falloon's charges in Australia.

Agreed. It's a lot of pressure for anyone who takes that shirt but at least a backrower like Ward isn't in the limelight as a halfback is.
Give Sutcliffe Ward's 14 shirt for now and then the 6 shirt when McGuire retires.

That's why I'd go Cuthbertson. Not going to be compared to Sinfield in anyway and has already won over the fans massively, not an academy product with a potential +10 year career ahead at Leeds. Sutcliffe definitely has Sinfield comparisons and Ward wasn't he labelled "the next Kev" when coming through.

Nowadays though players are precious towards keeping a number because of their Twitter handles.

G'day new to this posting game but reckon Westerman has plenty of talent as a ball player. He had a nightmare in the cup game this year at hull, however looked to me like a man trying too hard to make an impression. Would provide another pivot and in a better side have no pressure to overplay. I think could prove a good addition. At the home super 8 game v saints jjjb said he was trying to convince uncle gary he had 30 more games in him.

Should clarify Westerman had a nightmare in the cup with ball in hand but effort was clear to see and it was a grim, wet night. He was trying hard to impress. Luke gale has been with his dad at last 2 games v saints in the corporate bit having a meal, mate of McGuire. If we went for daz Clark as well it could be invasion of the cas lads. Burrow might need a new song

What I didn't realise is that Westerman is still only 25. He's hitting what should be his peak years as a second-rower. There's definitely a good player in there, if someone can get it out on a regular basis.

The thing is I'd always back a player to improve as a player and a professional at Leeds from what he was at Hull.

Still think the club could bring in two, maybe three players. Falloon, Westerman and L Burgess I would be very happy with.