Confidence is shot. Players are making the effort but it's as individuals. We saw exactly the same under Furner, and towards the end of his time at Leeds, Agar too.

It's a sorry state of affairs at the club. I'd like to see GH taking more of a responsible attitude than this. When there's implicit blame being passed around from the top-down it doesn't bode well for the health of the organisation, and I agree there's a likely a connection between this message and on-field performances.

As fans, we like there to be a simple solution - a new CEO, a new coach, a new signing etc, but Leeds are in such a mess that I don't think any of these things are going to be enough on their own. The drive to be better has to be sustained from within or the club will be condemned to mediocrity for a long time to come.

There is a simple solution, it’s just not a quick one. Both GH and RS need to move on, GH to purely the non rugby side, and RS out of the club altogether.

I don’t see us back seriously challenging for another 2-3 years yet.

2-3 years ago people were saying exactly the same, so maybe make that another 4-6.

Im not talking about next year though Jim, im talking about this season, from pre-season to now, Smith's had a shocker, even regular fans with a basic knowledge base could see pre-season was a shambles as it was happening, they were right

And that tradjectory has been maintained throughout the season, he's largely to blame for the lack of cohesion with his 'why slot in one player when i can move 3' approach to someone being unavailable.

A structure should be implemented regardless of personel, you will get different levels of fit depending on players abilitys, but a structure should still be visable, these arnt u8's we're talking about, for all the talk of a young side, o'conner aside, we've had the oldest spine in the comp, but our only visable pattern of attacking play was still throw the ball about and hope for the best, a coach should be able to get more from experienced halfs/fullback, wether they are his ideal spine or not. Now they arnt available we'r seeing the cost of the lack of structure, because players with less talent/expierience are now in that position of having to conjure something out of nothing, and they cant do it.

Now im not suggesting he cant turn it around, or that he wasnt a breath of fresh air last year, but talking about his performance this season in isolation, he's had a shocker, no two ways about it

If Betty did the team talk next week we would probably get a better response from the players. Rohan is a joker.

Let's say that happens starting tomorrow. 12-18 months in, fans will be saying exactly the same thing with the new CEO and coach. What do we do then, stick or twist?

Wouldn’t that depend on how we were doing and what plan we had communicated?

Definitely wouldn't sack Betty the tea lady as a good cup of tea is probably the only potential pleasure at Headingley currently. I have always tried to he balanced about it and you cannot change every role at once in an organisation however clearly as a club we have issues at all levels and many where there before RS was appointed.
The last 2 games are just the culmination of issues that have either been there for a number of years at board and organisation level or that have steadily got worse at coaching and playing level all year.
I thought RS did well last year but this year has been a creeping disaster and I fear he is probably not the right man now however it's very hard to change at this stage although personally I would try and get Sean Wane.
The key worries regarding RS this year for me are as follows.

Coaching team according to Gary the coach picks them Walker and Grix not for me!
No proper pre-season and team seemed underprepared.
Experimenting with players out of position.
Passive Defense
Lack of clear attacking structure.
Poor communication and no leaders on the pitch possibly recruitment issue but Smith is passive as well.
Dealing with poor discipline. (Newman)
Appears to have lost the dressing room.

Now it's not all RS fault as I think Gary has thrown him under the bus a bit but if he picks the coaches and is in charge of recruitment and who stays and go's then somebody needs to stand up and take some responsibility

Salary cap not available on the night is huge, and includes arguably our first choice spine at the start of the season. Different reasons why some of these players aren't available but arguably only Leeming could have been replaced in-season.

Tetevano - marquee signing
Sezer - marquee or close to marquee money
Walters - our 'best young player' according to Wilkin
Myler - injured
Bentley - injured
Sangare - injured
Austin - left during season and not replaced
Leeming - left during season and not replaced
Macdonald - left during season and not replaced

How many games would Leeds have won in 2015 without Hardaker, McGuire, Sinfield and Aiton/Burrow all out, plus Peacock (as our highest paid forward, equivalent to Tetevano).

Exactly Seth….it’s like Groudhog day

Thing is if the club is rotten top to bottom a) then how do you explain the good results this year e.g. the Saints and Wigan games earlier season? Was everyone amazing then because we were winning? b) if there is a problem then the only common denominator is Hetherington I’m afraid.

Lost the dressing room? I don’t think so although these hammerings drive people apart obviously.

I’m not sure anyone on this forum really has an inside angle on the camp to know what we’re talking about.

Also as we’re discussing youth matts, who are you thinking we could see break through over the next year or two? I’ve given up predicting I usually can’t pick them.

There were 11 first choice players and a couple of experienced squad members e.g. Donaldson out there - the spine had 40% of its first choice line up. The performances the last two weeks suggest this is a cultural issue.