FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > 17 v Wigan! |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "On playing advantage alone it's erroneous to compare the different sports. Different speeds, styles and rules make the advantage rule much easier to use in RU for example where the ref can play on for around 30 secs before bringing them back.'"
I disagree. nothing to stop a ref waiting 4/5 seconds before blowing. had silverwood done that last night it would have been great reffing. he blew too quickly.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "Ablett had a slow start to the season but for me was Man of the Match vs Hudds. Wasn't great yesterday and much of his performance centres around those two wasted chances.
I'll point out again, Moon only made 5 carries. Watching the game back, one of those came in the dying seconds when we flung it wide to Cuthbertson who was taking a breather out on the left and looked like "f**k this I'm knackered" and passed it to Moon who decided to take the tackle with so little time remaining. That leaves just 4 other carries in the previous 79m40s of play by him and Ablett looked terrified to pass to him in two try scoring opportunities. The first one in particular he seemed to be passing it and then at the last second realised it was Moon and though "hold on a second" and decided to throw it towards Hall's bootlaces instead.
Definately seems that there was a reluctance to use Moon.....a week after his concussion.....so firstly I wouldn't read too much into the performance of the left edge and secondly I'd question why we selected Moon to play, especially given the spotlight around head injuries of late.'"
Other than the Huddersfield game, and first 20 mins against Wire, he has looked poor in each game. He was not very good against Wigan, simple as that, nothing to do with Moon. If it was for the first 10 mins, then it would surely have been quickly realised there was no problem with Moon.
Perhaps it is just our expectation levels are much higher for Ablett after three impressive seasons from him. And perhaps because of that the pressure is felt by him, after all he is now one of our more veteran players, and a form of leader. We know he is much better, and I am sure it will click again.
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| Quote: tad rhino "I disagree. nothing to stop a ref waiting 4/5 seconds before blowing. had silverwood done that last night it would have been great reffing. he blew too quickly.'"
No I agree he COULD'VE done but at the same time it wasn't exactly obvious that there was a pass on. Let's be honest Watkins has ended up throwning a speculator over his head that just so happened to come off. Could've waited a second or two longer but it wasn't so obvious that it was an awful reaction/decision to blow straight away.
TBF to the guy he probably realised straight away that maybe he could've played on.....but once the whistle goes it's very hard for him to take it back.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "No I agree he COULD'VE done but at the same time it wasn't exactly obvious that there was a pass on. Let's be honest Watkins has ended up throwning a speculator over his head that just so happened to come off. Could've waited a second or two longer but it wasn't so obvious that it was an awful reaction/decision to blow straight away.
TBF to the guy he probably realised straight away that maybe he could've played on.....but once the whistle goes it's very hard for him to take it back.'"
He didnt apologise though. Usually when a ref has blown up way too early they realise and apologise to the players. Instead arrogant silverwood just waved his whistle around as if he was completely in the right. Its that attitude that es players and fans off more than the crappy decision making.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "That decision went to the video ref so I am not sure you could blame Silverwood for that'"
I'm note blaming Silverwood mate, not his call. Just pointing out the inconsistency within the game that is driving people mad. Someone that is illegally 3 to 4 yards is ignored, yet half a yard in a different scenario is punished.
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| Quote: Old Feller "Do you seriously believe that referees cheat?
That decision was absolutely correct.
If players encroach then so be it provided that both sides are treated the same.
At the game I was annoyed at Silverwood's performance in the first half but I thought he did well in the second half. He started to get a grip with Wigans high shots & messing around at the PTB, as a result they never really threatened in the second half.'"
Of course they cheat. The decision against McGuire was indeed correct, but similar margins are ignored by the refs throughout every game. If a ref misses something in the heat of the moment, fair do's, but when they see players encroaching 2to3 yards beyond legal limits and choose to ignore it, they are cheating, they are not enforcing the rules. If a players chooses not to comply knowingly with the laws of the game he is cheating, if a referee chooses to ignore an offence, he is cheating. You have been brainwashed by current rhetoric, "ah well, it's the same for both sides". The problem is, it's not the same for both sides. Referees are supposed to enforce the laws of the game, not cut a bit of slack here and there, depending who it is. If people like you accept discretionary judgements by refs then don't come moaning on here when Leeds lose a Grand Final from a penalty awarded in the final minute, from a ref who is has used his discretion all night, and then decides to penalise Leeds in the last minute. Video refs have no excuse to get a decision badly wrong, Moons was obviously a no try, easy for them, no discretion involved because they would be hung, drawn and quarterd. The man in the middle and the touch judges however, choosing to ignore offside, moving off the mark, laying on, and lots of other little things throughout every game are cheats, they see a player breaking the laws of the game and don't penalise them. The next time you get a speeding fine just tell the judge, "Aww come on, it was only 33MPH in a 30". See what they say.
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| Quote: leeds owl "Of course they cheat. The decision against McGuire was indeed correct, but similar margins are ignored by the refs throughout every game. If a ref misses something in the heat of the moment, fair do's, but when they see players encroaching 2to3 yards beyond legal limits and choose to ignore it, they are cheating, they are not enforcing the rules. If a players chooses not to comply knowingly with the laws of the game he is cheating, if a referee chooses to ignore an offence, he is cheating. You have been brainwashed by current rhetoric, "ah well, it's the same for both sides". The problem is, it's not the same for both sides. Referees are supposed to enforce the laws of the game, not cut a bit of slack here and there, depending who it is. If people like you accept discretionary judgements by refs then don't come moaning on here when Leeds lose a Grand Final from a penalty awarded in the final minute, from a ref who is has used his discretion all night, and then decides to penalise Leeds in the last minute. Video refs have no excuse to get a decision badly wrong, Moons was obviously a no try, easy for them, no discretion involved because they would be hung, drawn and quarterd. The man in the middle and the touch judges however, choosing to ignore offside, moving off the mark, laying on, and lots of other little things throughout every game are cheats, they see a player breaking the laws of the game and don't penalise them. The next time you get a speeding fine just tell the judge, "Aww come on, it was only 33MPH in a 30". See what they say.'"
All teams particularly on their own line when defending are offside it's beyond a joke yet very rarely if ever are teams penalised. This part of the game drives me mad. Saints are worst offenders by a mile
The other is "head high tackles" that Stevo never stops going on about even if the tackle is shoulder high.
These two issues are for me personally spoiling what is or should be a physical game played in the right spirit.
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| Quote: leeds owl "Of course they cheat. The decision against McGuire was indeed correct, but similar margins are ignored by the refs throughout every game. If a ref misses something in the heat of the moment, fair do's, but when they see players encroaching 2to3 yards beyond legal limits and choose to ignore it, they are cheating, they are not enforcing the rules. If a players chooses not to comply knowingly with the laws of the game he is cheating, if a referee chooses to ignore an offence, he is cheating. You have been brainwashed by current rhetoric, "ah well, it's the same for both sides". The problem is, it's not the same for both sides. Referees are supposed to enforce the laws of the game, not cut a bit of slack here and there, depending who it is. If people like you accept discretionary judgements by refs then don't come moaning on here when Leeds lose a Grand Final from a penalty awarded in the final minute, from a ref who is has used his discretion all night, and then decides to penalise Leeds in the last minute. Video refs have no excuse to get a decision badly wrong, Moons was obviously a no try, easy for them, no discretion involved because they would be hung, drawn and quarterd. The man in the middle and the touch judges however, choosing to ignore offside, moving off the mark, laying on, and lots of other little things throughout every game are cheats, they see a player breaking the laws of the game and don't penalise them. The next time you get a speeding fine just tell the judge, "Aww come on, it was only 33MPH in a 30". See what they say.'"
There isn't a big enough faceplam for this post.
When Silverwood gave us a penalty in 2012 GF that Sinfield kicked for a fairly soft call against Ben Harrisoj did you think he was cheating? Or when the VR awarded Lee Smith dodgy looking offside try in the 2009 GF? Or when Thaler didn't go to the screen in the 2012 CC semi vs Wigan when Hardaker scored after McGuire clearly knocked on?
Refs get stuff wrong, it happens. It's frustrating and I thnk some need to up their game at times but it's definately NOT because they're trying to cheat.
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| Quote: rhino phil "He didnt apologise though. Usually when a ref has blown up way too early they realise and apologise to the players. Instead arrogant silverwood just waved his whistle around as if he was completely in the right. Its that attitude that es players and fans off more than the crappy decision making.'"
Well depends which he way you want to interpret it.
A, he waved his whistle around as if he was completely right.
B, he waved his whistle as if to say "I've blown now, I can't play on after that".
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| Quote: ThePrinter "On playing advantage alone it's erroneous to compare the different sports. Different speeds, styles and rules make the advantage rule much easier to use in RU for example where the ref can play on for around 30 secs before bringing them back.'"
But in this particular instance, he would only have had to wait five seconds. If Farrell completes the tackle on Watkins, blow up. If not - and it was pretty obvious that if Watkins got the ball away Leeds had a walk in try - then just play on. He can then go back and sin-bin Farrell after the try has been awarded.
As others have said, arguably if he blows for the penalty he has to give a penalty try. There's no way Farrell would have been able to get back, hit the try line to put himself onside and then make the tackle. Watkins had clearly caught the ball, and other than having his hands fall off would have just had to fall over the line and score.
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "But in this particular instance, he would only have had to wait five seconds. If Farrell completes the tackle on Watkins, blow up. If not - and it was pretty obvious that if Watkins got the ball away Leeds had a walk in try - then just play on. He can then go back and sin-bin Farrell after the try has been awarded.
As others have said, arguably if he blows for the penalty he has to give a penalty try. There's no way Farrell would have been able to get back, hit the try line to put himself onside and then make the tackle. Watkins had clearly caught the ball, and other than having his hands fall off would have just had to fall over the line and score.'"
No way can he give a penalty try. Freeze frame when Watkins catches it and there's a Wigan player on the goalline in line with Watkins......now odds are Watkins would still get over given the space to the right BUT you can't give a penatly try there.
Like I said, Silverwood has been a bit quick and COULD'VE played on but at the same time it wasn't like it was clearly obvious that the pass was on.....Watkins has just lobbed one over his head, not even sure he knew a teammate was there or he was just guessing.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "when the VR awarded Lee Smith dodgy looking offside try in the 2009 GF?'" It was only dodgy to people who didn't understand the rules...
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| A Super League referee last year on Twitter (think it was Silverwood) said to me something at first which made my blood boil at first but then I understood what he meant
I questioned him as to why one week one decision went against us and the following week when it happened to us nothing was given his answer was "interpretation" Simply one ref might see it one way then another ref will see it another way.
Now the refs go by the rules of the game however their viewpoint can be different from so many angles or what they see etc that it can lead to decisions will not always be same. Yes it's pretty rubbish and it left me fuming but I do see his point.
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| Quote: ThePrinter "There isn't a big enough faceplam for this post.
When Silverwood gave us a penalty in 2012 GF that Sinfield kicked for a fairly soft call against Ben Harrisoj did you think he was cheating? Or when the VR awarded Lee Smith dodgy looking offside try in the 2009 GF? Or when Thaler didn't go to the screen in the 2012 CC semi vs Wigan when Hardaker scored after McGuire clearly knocked on?
Refs get stuff wrong, it happens. It's frustrating and I thnk some need to up their game at times but it's definately NOT because they're trying to cheat.'"
Great post. Fans only remember things that go against them. Anyone who thinks they cheat is an idiot
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| Quote: Lawrie L "A Super League referee last year on Twitter (think it was Silverwood) said to me something at first which made my blood boil at first but then I understood what he meant
I questioned him as to why one week one decision went against us and the following week when it happened to us nothing was given his answer was "interpretation" Simply one ref might see it one way then another ref will see it another way.
Now the refs go by the rules of the game however their viewpoint can be different from so many angles or what they see etc that it can lead to decisions will not always be same. Yes it's pretty rubbish and it left me fuming but I do see his point.'"
I have reffed for 20 years loz. It's not just interpretation. It's the angle you see it from, your view, lots of things
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