Well there a whole other discussion there about the merits of Smith and McLennan.

I am sure that on Grand Final date that strange quirk of statistics will have no bearing upon the outcome.

Leeds or Saints will win the title. If I were a betting man, I would put my house on it.

The result of the game last week will have no effect on the result though

No effect perhaps but a quirk of fate that has held true for the last three seasons. Does that make it any more or any less likely to ring true for a fourth season?

Having watching Horizon last night, I'll leave statistical probablility to the people that understand it.

To be fair to TVOC, he appears more interested in the season long impact of having 4 props as opposed to one off games and I don't think the fact that we won one off games should cloud the issue.

I can see where he's coming from and if I felt that there was a player of the right calibre available I would have no problem with the signing. If we have academy lads with the potential to fill the role then in the absence of Eastwood they need to be included in the first team squad.

My feeling is that the Eastwood situation, where he is supposedly coming next season is dictating policy. This along with the players whose contracts expire in 2009 (therehas been a list somewhere) probably mean that recruitment cannot be finalised at the moment.

Pre season you could back Leeds and seperately back St Helens to finish top after the SL regular rounds.

I forget the exact odds but if either went on to finish top you would cover your lost bet and win around 50% on top of your stake.

I'm not a betting man (well not anymore major) but that seemed like a rare giveaway from the bookies given your appraisal of the race.

If I don;t cloud the issue the debate is half as much fun I can see where he's coming from and if I felt that there was a player of the right calibre available I would have no problem with the signing. If we have academy lads with the potential to fill the role then in the absence of Eastwood they need to be included in the first team squad.
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I'm not having that, I'm their cheerleader.

gareth, do you think 4 props, over the course of a season is good?
i could be wrong but i don't think we have a burgess who is ready to play from the reserves this season.
we haven't replaced scruton or ellis,though of course we did try to sign eastwood who can play both roles if required.
the pack does seem a little light. i'm not one for a big name signing but i would like someone who can play prop/second row,even if only on a season long loan.

I agree but who is available though

I recall when they announced the squad numbers for this year they left out no 25 - apparently for a close season signing.

My memories not great, but I don't recall it being filled.(?) So I suppose without Eastwood as well it may well leave us light in depth as the season progresses.

I feel proud to support a club that gives its academy lads a chance and brings them on to the first team, so I wouldn't want us to just sign bodies. However I suspect GH, BMcC had a plan which hasn't quite come off in their recruitment.

No 15 (Eastwood) and no 25 but Paul McShane has taken number 26 and obviously graded this season. The other named squad players yet to be seen in the first grade this season are 21 - Simon Worrall and 24 - Ben Jones-Bishop.

As for Ambler, Manning etc we'll have to wait for an appearance before we can catch a squad number, unless anyone out there knows any different?

I'm sure you'll tell me if I'm wrong again but wasn't Manning named in the squad for the Warrington game? If so I'd have thought he had / would have been given a squad number.

(By the way on my earlier post I meant Burgess hadn't made his debut by start of last season just didn't make myself clear)

I guess you can never have too much quality. There's always the risk of keeping everyone happy. I know young Burgess finished last season a little dis-enchanted as not at the fore-front of Bluey's favour and if Scruton had stayed I honestly don't think Burgess would be here long term. You've got to keep everyone happy. But, if we could get another prop in under the cap, keeping the squad happy and balanced then it would be nice. If we can't its' not the disaster some make out. As I said, we started last year in the same position which leads me to..........

No idea mate but I'd little idea about Burgess either other than knowing friends of the family and, obviously, knowing of what his brother could do. What i do know is if we don't give them an opportunity we will never know.

..and we've signed Buderus to add to the pack which means we've more quality at dummy half (fingers crossed in due course) which may off-set having lesser players in the back row (Like Worrall) if needed.

Perhaps but I'd rather throw a kid in personally. You never know what gem you may unearth. Manning has been 18th man a couple of times this year and I am keen to have a look at him at some point.

I mean what did emergency signing Ansemle really do for us last year that Allen, for example, couldn't have?